[Music]
hello hi this is not going to be
nice um I'm here to tell you that it
will be your fault if things go wrong
and I will explain that um in Greater
detail I think our it's such a nice
segue to have um rina's talk earlier
because exactly what I want to talk
about is the responsibility you have
when you abstract chains and when you
curate the infrastructure that you
have so about me um I'm the peanut brain
at peanut protocol and we've been doing
chain abstraction when we still called
it chain agnostic payments so we do we
do chain abstracted payments you can do
a payment let's say in 10 usdt on
optimism and someone can receive 10 USD
on polygon uh we don't use um intense we
don't use fancy solvers we use Simple
Bridges um to make that happen we've
been around for a while now um so yeah
um for generalized chain abstraction I
think it's important to ask like why why
should I even care where my tokens live
so I think I personally care because the
risks are very different to something
like a traditional centralized financial
institution when you think about a bank
you have legal guarantees and you have
have bailouts um that secure your funds
and you don't need to worry about the
exact Capital the underlying Capital um
of the bank you can be pretty sure that
you are able to withdraw um your funds
in any mature economy in crypto well we
don't have legal documents to back us up
we have Smart contracts um so I want to
talk through two dilemas one is simple
ux and like very stripped down ux and
exposing all of the
risks so L2 beat when Bridge
beat um I think I think it's um yeah uh
a slide that I stole uh from radina that
I briefly want to talk about um look at
all of the risks that are um involved in
such a simple thing as just having usdc
on orderly um well getting usdc on
orderly you not only have all the circle
risk then you get like the the mantle
risk get the canonical brisk G layer
zero and so on that's crazy um so let's
make the pizza green um and let's talk
through some ways we can communicate
these risks to end users so we have this
first generation of chain first two eyes
which emphasize the chain um and then
and then the acids so that's like
metamask where you have to pick your
chain and then it only shows the acids
on that specific chain then we have acid
first UI so Rabbi I think has a is a
really nice example where um it shows
you the assets it will even show you um
the the uh uh um Network
um um as separate entities but it will
show the asset first it will show the
the network as a small thing in the back
um well how should we do it as as
product people um what should a product
person do should they just like slap
thousands of warnings everywhere uh
surely that's not a good way to onboard
um users it gets even worse when we
abstract everything and we just have
like a final balance and we just assume
that everything's going to Route it
everywhere right yet we have to
expose um these things somehow um
especially that with chain abstraction
essentially what happens I would argue
is that the fat protocal thesis kind of
stops existing and the middleware thesis
plus the app thesis become much broader
um which means that you much much more
responsible for curating um the
infrastructure and the middleware you're
using and what you're exposing to the
end user so there is this phenomenon I
think that we'll see um with mass
onboarding and very simple apps where
we'll have a race to the bottom in terms
of not showing these risks right like as
a business especially as a startup I
want to move fast and break things and
yeah I'm it is a disadvantage is it is
objectively a business disadvantage to
be like warning this thing is at risk
warning that thing is at risk um which
means that it's even more important to
internally as a product team to vet the
infrastructure that you're using and
consult um uh tools and and people like
L2 beat and uh maybe Bridge beat in this
in the future um one thing that I wanted
to emphas is that the market doesn't
seem to price these risks um strongly
like one eth on some random L2 is going
to be exactly the same dollar value of
eth on Main net um so it seems that um
the market just doesn't doesn't price
these maybe because we haven't seen a
catastrophic risk yet uh a catastrophic
failure yet so yeah uh if you ever want
to chat about interoperability for
payments uh DM me I will send you money
um these are my uh
details thank you
Conrad and you can already talk to
Conrad right now if you ask a question
incredible right you can ask your uh
question by raising your hand and I'll
get the box to
you yes oh that's far maybe it's easier
you do from there
no no it's okay you can you can you can
stay okay I like standing up anyway so I
understand about the counterparty risk
of the bridge uh introducing you know
different risk to the bridge asset but
in the far future if we have soft smart
contract security and all that with like
ZK or whatever people are using do you
foresee it being at risk parity across
all the chain and therefore chain
abstraction is
viable I think when we say chain
abstraction it's still basket of chains
that you as a um prodject Creator uh
curate right so they I I think maybe
there will be a world where all this
Tech will go down to zero it will it's
going to go it's going to be very very
simple to have like really really really
good um tech there um that where we
don't need to do all these um audits
essentially um but uh yeah it's it's up
to you to curate I think that's my my
main argument yeah
yeah all right we have another question
in the far future yeah sorry sorry for
someone that's new into the space me
here oh for someone that's new into the
space and building doesn't have like a
plor of knowledge of
existing third party risk that exists
with Bridges like how do you actually
assess and price in that risk when
building where's the best place to do
that yeah really really good question so
El is a great place um I think my main
message would be again it's you as the
product owner or or even like
co-founders um who have to make that
decision about curation if you want to
hide the risks like you you're faced
with this dilemma of like either you
expose the risk and you fair to the user
and say well it's going to be your own
fault you're you're responsible which
creates wor UI or um you curate it for
them and then um don't get surprised if
uh people will spam your support email
if they lose their funds and they will
hunt you
down cool we have time for another
question anyone wants to ask
one maybe you do maybe don't yes you do
fantastic get ready to catch and
go good catch and do say if that's going
to create the barrier of entry for like
new l2s to enter because like the r
there's a re in a new
play I think it's the opposite so I
think with as with any research project
um there's a first mve disadvantage
because you're pouring in millions and
millions into the biggest brains of the
industry to design a new infrastructure
and then anyone else can just Fork that
or build a very similar copy um yeah
whilst inheriting all of the niceties of
the first
mover but it wouldn't apply for if they
are using a new technology for example
yeah sure if you're building something
new then you need to convince everyone
that it's good Tech and you need to
really pitch yourself I think that's
also a message to all infra projects
like pitch that pitch to apps that you
are the the best option the secure
option for your users because app
developers have this responsibility um
towards the end
users of curation yeah