foreign
[Music]
well good morning everyone thank you for
for being here I know uh mornings after
Ravi can be a bit of a struggle so
appreciate you all all being here
uh so I'll do a bit of an introduction
to myself and the ethereum foundation
next billion program and then I'll pass
it on to the brilliant panelists we have
up on stage
so my name is my name is Marcus I'm a
fellow at the ethereum foundation where
I am currently researching the
implementations of Last Mile defy
focusing primarily in Latin America and
essentially asking ourselves how can we
leverage defy to not just you know bring
financial gain but actually Empower
livelihoods in a real very tangible way
so always happy to talk about these
things at a later stage and context-wise
into the next billion team really the
the essence of next billion is to ask
ourselves how can we leverage ethereum
and web 3 not just to onboard the next
billion users but to create tangible
very visceral changes in their lives and
do so at a very scalable level so with
that I will pass it on to the three
panelists here to my left and allow them
to introduce ourselves and tell us a
little bit about what they're working on
hi I'm Abhishek bhattacharya I'm one of
the co-founders at a project called
world
what we do is we are a C5 to D5 Bridge
we are we started three years back
helping Farmers enabling Farmers take
loan against their crops that they can
store right after harvesting uh Farmers
receive very less uh price for the crops
that for the for per kilogram price for
the crops that they grow we enable them
we encourage them to store it in a
warehouse in a government or a private
warehouse and sell it off after three or
four months when the prices are 40 or
even sometimes 100 to 100 percent better
we use blockchain to do that to bring
banks on the table we'll be discussing
about that as well that how we brought
Banks onto blockchain and that is what
we've been doing now we are going on to
decentralized finance soon so that the
same farmers in a country like India and
maybe everywhere else can get access to
D5 lending as well
thank you
thank you so I'm Gabriela I'm from
Mexico I am working on blowings blo INX
that's an application decentralized
application that manages saving circles
you might know them as standards
Couture's cheat funds or many ways
around the world
that's a way of people to actually let's
say get an interest-free loan if you're
one of the first uh from your friends or
your family members and if you're the
last you're actually contributing for
them to get this these loan why this is
important for us in Mexico and Latin
America Asia and Africa it's not easy
for us to get a loan and if we get one
it's super normal to have 50 interest
rate 100 percent and people don't read
the small letters so we get into very
big depth so this is why it's important
to give them options to actually have
this let's say social credit options so
that's what we're doing
hello everyone
my name is Benson yuguna I come from
Kenya
we've been working with smallholder
Farmers with acre Africa solving the
insurance problem so Agri insurance has
been a problem where we have very low
penetration for years it has been around
three percent of the smallholders taking
up insurance and we feel it's important
for them to take up insurance and many
other traders who are earning an income
because we were able to protect them
because lack of insurance has left most
of the the farmers exposed to
hunger because after a climate effect
then no food then it means they can't
sell because it also the food has been
affected meaning no income and a whole
cycle of unfavorable things so with that
we are doing this solving the problems
that are making them not take up
insurance and blockchain has helped us
to do some of these things which we'll
discuss as we go on thank you Marcus
awesome thank you um so yeah an
incredible group of people here doing
amazing work uh really just changing
people's lives in a very real sense
using you know this technology so I mean
I just before maybe to set a little bit
of context we could just go around and
and uh just perhaps lay the scene of you
know we've got India Latin America and
Africa up out here on stage
across each of your respective regions
what have you what is it about the
traditional systems and our current
incumbent systems that are set in place
that are currently falling short for
whether it's for Farmers or for local
communities and saving circles where are
traditional and Company institutions
falling short and on the other side of
the equation there what is it unique
what is unique about defy that enables
your proposition to be unlocked through
leveraging you know distributed ledgers
Etc
so uh maybe I'll be sure kick it off to
you sure currently uh in India
everywhere else also as we are expanding
globally we've seen many other countries
um the the systems that are in place for
example talking about the loans that we
give to Farmers these are centralized
Finance Loans given by Banks since ages
it's not something we brought on but
there's a lot of fraud in that and
that's of course fraud is the biggest
thing that blockchain solves anyway
that's where blockchain finds most use
case in fintech uh so as a fintech
organization we saw that the government
systems the the banking systems the
entire uh platform that is available to
the farmers and to the banks is not is
not sufficient and blockchain could help
banks are pulling out of this entire uh
ecosystem leaving Farmers into the hands
of usurious money lenders with
outrageous interest rates so that's one
one you know drawback that uh systems
like in India the government
organizations they have and uh you
talked about D5 D5 is a very new thing
farmers of course have nothing to do
with D5 like to understand the concept
but it is at play at the back end where
I personally believe that it's access to
so as we say there are more than 1.7
billion unbanked people across the globe
with D5 we do not have to just go wait
for a bank to process the loans even
though if it's in real time it's still
15 minutes 30 minutes that's as
real-time as it gets for the farmers at
this moment but with the D5 it is access
to the global D5 capital and on the
other hand it's a good thing for the for
the D5 lenders as well because they get
access to really stable assets not not
against speculative crypto these are
crops non-perishable crops me soybean
rice anything you name it and that's
that's where they would be interested in
driving the D5 capital and we would be
interested in replacing those systems
that are already there uh and and the
shortcomings with with this new system
helped by D5 blockchain web3 all
together Hey so uh situation in Mexico
right right now with the ethereum
foundation where I'm going to focusing
on women
what's the situation there so we have uh
legally a 48 Hour Work week so imagine a
family a single mom that has two kids
has to work 48 hours and then has to
take Transportation then she has no time
we don't have a good health care System
well a child to a day care system so
it's difficult so what option do they
have in formality there are two billion
people around the world talking now
about next billion we have 2 billion
people around the world that are
uninformally employed why because of
this because they sell informally
because they're Farmers so uh this is
the situation they live day to day they
either bake cakes or creams do massages
or whatever thing they might think of so
uh it's difficult what happens when they
need they have medical emergency with
their kids they need cash right they try
to get it from a centralized financial
institution but what happens is that
they require a proof of income which
they don't have so this is a serious
issue they have this option of getting
loans from informal lenders but it's
super high interest rates or they have
this other option what why these options
already exist these options have been
there for
100 years in many countries
what you do there is you put in your
social credit right so uh why blockchain
well it's decentralized you can join a
saving Circle uh yes you have the same
risks of a common saving Circle but we
can exploit their uh trust ability we
know exactly what was the posited and
when it was deposited and then to who it
what it was paid to so that's super
important in our case where we have a
lot of corruption and people doing none
let's say legal or correct ethical
things so this is important for us and
also we can leverage a reputation system
that can eventually uh serve as a
foundation for for them to actually get
a loan from our financial institution
for a bigger amount so this is why
blockchain is there everything is
Unchained so it's permanent immutable
and node subject to to change by anyone
so that's why
well I'll I'll cue what Gabriela said so
in defy in our context in Africa
kissing point in Kenya we have mobile
money as is a digital technology uh it's
for example in Kenya it has over 98
adoption meaning almost every adult
citizen has a wallet a mobile money
wallet
um but we still find challenges
challenges in how how much they paying
how much they're paying for the loans so
we have very high interest on the loans
in fact they are regarded as predatorial
uh in fact even the central bank has
been tracking down so this access to
finance uh has been a challenge because
of high interest rates and when it comes
now to defy to protect for example
income so a farmer has income how what
why are they are we saying if I can help
solve the problem so for us it was the
transparency in the traditional
Insurance business so
an agent will go to the field convince a
farmer to buy insurance but then keep
quiet for a whole six months the season
would take around six months next time
they see the agent will be next time
they're selling so no information no no
didn't know what policy where the two
quote was happening about it now with
blockchain we're able to enable the
farmer using feature phones the
penetrations of feature phones is high
uh to dial a style a number and able to
see so far you your policy has triggered
this percentage which is equivalent to
this amount of money and also the
triggers that were used to say determine
whether they qualify for a claim or not
are tamper evident so we generate hashes
put them on chain so you can to prove
you just need to produce the hash and
compare it with the data since we don't
publish the Pharma data on chain but
yeah that's how we Define and blockchain
is revolutionizing financing
incredible amazing
um yeah I find it really interesting
that each of you is sort of working it
through different sectors you're working
very much so you know with governments
and large Regulators as well and trying
to figure out a lot of the real world
asset integration as well and Gabriela
you're very much so kind of working with
local uh you know women level
cooperatives and and figuring out like
how do you download and work with
metamask for example we were talking
about that earlier right and how you
even would you know add polygon to your
metamask wallet and just thinking about
what that user experience is like and
then Benson like you're tying in all
this technology that already exists out
in the world too right and you're saying
hey we've got mpesa ussd transactions as
well and we're tying in you know climate
data and so I just appreciate the the
breadth to which each of you is is
leveraging this and on that point I mean
perhaps Abby you could paint a little
bit of that picture of what it's been
like working with uh kind of incumbent
institutions in your jurisdiction right
so you mentioned you're speaking with
banks you're speaking with Regulators in
the space as well you're very much so
working with real world assets which is
just a fascinating Concept in and of
itself too so I wonder if you could set
a little bit of a light on that because
that's been a really sort of Hot Topic
in the space recently how we integrate
real world assets within D5 so maybe you
can shed some light on that yes I mean I
understand because the entire blockchain
ecosystem has always been wondering that
uh how do banks and governments fit in
with the ecosystem how to bring them on
board I have met so many people here
people working with the Colombian
government I work with Indian government
he's working with the Kenyan government
so uh definitely now Banks and
governments and all those institutions
have started opening up to you know to
to adopting blockchain based systems but
then there are certain boundaries that
you always always would have to keep in
mind so for example
I we could not have just asked to ask
the bank to come and join us on a public
blockchain right like ethereum polygon
um but on the other hand uh so so it has
to be designed very specifically so that
you can take them in confidence
one very important thing about Banks and
uh I mean especially big Banks right and
in India there are a handful of big
Banks big odds and uh is that their
sales Cycles are too long because it's
just how they are right and
further crossing the barrier of going
onto a blockchain platform internally
they have that bureaucracy as well that
is a tough sell already but one thing we
have constantly seen seen in our use
case is that not a single bank has ever
said that uh no this is not something we
want because again this is not a domain
this is called Warehouse receipt Finance
you store a crop you take a loan against
it it's as simple as that it has been in
fact it has been it is one of the oldest
lending products known to mankind
what we did was we we just made it
better right but Banks knew it and banks
have been facing these fraud since
decades so and they tried solving it
with Legacy Technologies which they
haven't been able to so they were open
to at least open to adopting blockchain
right
they knew firsthand so yeah there's a
very clear distinction here firsthand
they knew we are only talking about
blockchain technology and we are not
talking about cryptocurrency
blockchain banks on blockchain will
barely ever get involved with
cryptocurrency at least in such use
cases not in uh the ones where we are
talking about cbdc or or cross-border
payments Etc but here they had to be
very clear so what we did was to onboard
them we created a permission blockchain
which Quorum which was built by JPMorgan
so came as a perfect use case that JP
Morgan is running a 400 Bank strong
Network on the same blockchain so why
not we use it use the same thing and
then when the banks were on board we
also uh talked to the governments of
course as much as possible reaching out
there are state governments in India and
then they saw that okay there's an
opportunity no cryptocurrency involved
the Indian government has been very
supportive of blockchain I mean you know
we have seen we have heard the Indian
honorable Indian Prime Minister srina
Modi we have seen him speak about
blockchain at the Singapore fintech
Festival last year he was very very you
know praiseworthy for for blockchain so
uh the government accepts it accepts it
really uh till the time we do not bring
cryptocurrency the challenge here is
that bringing D5 onto the same platform
which is where things become very
complicated which is something we're
trying to navigate even at this moment
we are trying to keep them uh separate
Banks won't be interacting with the
crypto ecosystem the crypto D5 lenders
won't be interacting with these C5
lenders but the farmer should be
benefited so the farmer on the click of
a button on a multilingual app would be
having access to whether to take this
moment this crop loan against that
particular crop in D5 or in C5 that's
what we're trying to abstract it's a
challenge it's still a challenge I'm
pretty sure that Kenya and Latin America
they would be facing the same problems
because it's just how it is I mean you
know it's just a decade of blockchain
that we've seen governments are not
ready to accept it just at the first go
that's that's what we've seen yeah yeah
it's true for example in our project uh
we were dealing with the insurance
regulator so you have to prove that
you're not using crypto so you don't
have you don't need to mention crypto
results we start with the efficiency so
we're bringing a technology that will do
exactly what has been happening but now
we can pay claims immediately at the end
of the season you don't have to work for
six months so after a while the Kenya
government is really good the regulator
has what we call a Sandbox so it gives
any crazy idea to to apply and say we
want to try out this and this and this
so part of this sandbox is where we are
now trying to see how can we introduce
risk uh crypto based risk pools where
now we can pay out from from a certain
risk pool that has been funded by the
community like the default Community uh
Abby is talking about so the regulator
has been yeah start with the technology
and then crypto later
yeah I mean we've obviously seen a lot
of um regulatory talk and that you know
sorry we'll sort of get back down on
throughout much of this conversation but
it is a really important consideration
right especially if we want to reach
sort of critical mass if we want to do
Integrations with wider Partners as well
thinking about how we do that definitely
we'll we'll take a lot of thought and
and you know having even sort of these
spaces for all of us to say hey these
are the benefits of defy here is how and
I think being able to align with
traditional financial institutions and
governments and Regulators saying listen
these are the these are the benefits
that comes to I think oftentimes there's
obviously this very
um oppositional position that that comes
up when we speak about defy in emerging
markets and around the world right so
and we've seen the likes of uniswap with
the DFI education fund as well really
push for more education more advocacy at
the regulatory level which is obviously
hugely hugely important but
switching over you know gears a little
bit uh gaudia I think one of the really
fascinating things and Abby was touching
on this too was
the idea that what you're offering I'll
be for example isn't necessarily new
right
um and and being able to Warehouse
financing isn't a particularly new
innovation the problem is that the
traditional financial institutions
haven't quite been serving Last Mile
communities because there isn't enough
value for them to engage with as they do
these things so gorilla also with the
tandas you know there's something really
interesting there as well where as you
said you know these are Traditions that
are hundreds of years old so
particularly with D5 like what is it
about tandas and decentralized finance
that unlocks that value and and really
enables people to be able to do this at
scale
yes for uh so people were people we like
tradition especially in markets like
Latin America uh we do what our parents
and grandparents did because it's just
how we are we're very familiar uh let's
say
uh community so uh what happens if you
for example
um
someone tells you hey getting to crypto
because you can pull your funds and then
you can put it in a farm and then you
get the yield and then you're a farmer
and it's like Paul right uh till this to
a mom who lives day by day and has very
few to actually take that risk right so
uh what happens there is that this is a
way to get them with a known thing right
they also say big circles they already
have been in many of these many times so
you take this something known into the
blockchain and then you get them hey you
can use your wallet uh you're using your
saving Circle but they don't know
they're using adapt So eventually they
will be able to get loans to stake to
eventually get into a pool and do whole
D5 things right then they can that can
unlock like that fear of
what's this right the yield and it's
just too much information from the
beginning so these tools that are things
that have already been happening many
years uh can enable this to go to an
audience that may not be that
technologically savvy but has a need for
these Technologies and they can use it
for something very tangible just like
like we saw with Ubi right for pay for
uniforms for school or for a medical
emergency or something that could really
benefit them in day by day right so
that's why we think these types of tools
known could be good for these next
billion users we're looking at yeah
um casing point in Kenya as well what
what or in Africa
um to actually have a farmer operator
wallet and they can deposit and withdraw
its yes as Gabriella put it
it may not it's quite hard it's not it's
a it's it will take time as to train but
we see an additional layer of we see a
layer of um we call it custodians so for
example we have a payment Gateway an
on-ramp of ramp called kotanipe we have
bitlipper in Kenya doing a good job so
what they do they they store the keys
for for the farmer and now translate
each wallet into a ussd based wallet so
a farmer would dial style 800 hash the
co access your wallet oh yeah withdraw
to m-pesa because the m-pesa is their
mobile money they can withdraw but you
see they are they they are used to the
ussd they're used to m-pesa the part of
wallet connection somebody else is doing
it at another level for them and with
time as we get more adoption of
smartphones because also smartphone is
an issue uh we have like a third of the
people uh have smartphones or 2 that is
the one that still has the feature
phones the button ones so once we see
more of smartphones coming in then we
feel more people will be able to control
the the defy Wallets on themselves and
uh yeah and also we other strategies
that we are introducing uh the
government is really keen on Capital
flight so on ramp you're changing your
local currency to a usdc for example so
if you you we start with projects that
bring in money into the country for
example there's Diva protocol and
Fortune connect we tapping donations
globally and reaching and pushing
through like uh this off-ramp to to the
farmer so the farmer is able to access
uh ussd and withdraw for example a
donation but then this has started
introducing them to differ so they'll
see oh with time so this money was
crypto now I have converted it to my
local currency ah so we can slowly move
down from the custodians of keys to
actually having them be the holders of
their own keys with time yeah
yeah I think so the work acre Africa by
is doing by the way is super fascinating
right so they're essentially enabled
like just when I when I learned about
your project I was super blown away
right the fact that you can essentially
sort of execute these transactions
utilizing ussd and integrate that with
m-pesa just speak so much to the
composability of these different sort of
building blocks and Legos but I'd love
to and and you mentioned as well like
mobile phones right we've seen an
increase in in traction with mobile
phone use as well and when it comes to
crypto we're still super far off
um you know I tried editing an ens
record today on my cell phone on my
metamask it was like such a pain
um and and so mobile phone sort of
integration with wallets and generally
just like crypto is still really far off
and I think that is a huge huge unlock
for you know there are more cell phones
in Colombia than there are people right
so when you think about what that means
for the development of a technology
that's really powerful so the question
is you know and maybe starting with you
Benson what are you what do you feel are
really the sort of at the use end user
experience perspective what are the big
unlocks that are missing for D5 here you
know I'm sure we've got a room here full
of people that are really Keen to get
building and are already exploring sort
of problem spaces and solutions so maybe
we can touch a little bit on the current
sort of end user challenges and what you
believe are really the the underlying
underlock so maybe we can work work our
way backwards here to get each of your
your thoughts on on those aspects thank
you thank you uh Marcus so the biggest
two challenges that we see is capacity
building for them to understand that
this is as good as mpesa it's just
crypto how do you make them understand
that it's not uh fraud because then that
comes to my second point we need to deal
with the trust if we deal with them
knowing how to work with it then
bringing tools introducing slowly
building on the blocks uh yeah off-ramp
solution connect to m-pesa then with
time you can go directly to the off-ramp
so uh directly they can now directly
train trade they don't have to really
withdraw because you'd ask a farmer
what's your incentive you have been re
you've received a donation in usdc why
are you withdrawing it to m-pesa you can
go to that Merchant and whatever you
wanted to buy or still buy and it will
avoid the transactional fees that are in
between here so dealing with uh with
trust dealing with knowledge and also
yeah trying to reduce as much as
possible the transaction fees
transaction fees are a big issue and the
interests that come in between these
transactions uh we think those are the
building blocks that can really bring a
lot of adoption
um yeah and also smartphone the more
smartphones people have then more
control of their own defy gateways
right so smartphones I think are key in
in Mexico it's the same thing people
have phones they access Internet through
their phones but have no computers or
anything right so we we see that
um uh I think one thing that I've come
up with is that there are many people
that with this uh fomo or with our
situation desperation I don't know how
to call it
um they want to get rich right away
right
so we see a lot of people that actually
got scammed and getting one person that
got scammed like let's say at the
beginning in their Journey
uh it's super hard for them
to get them back in again so we see that
happening we see them we see there are
people that have not good intentions and
that are making it very very hard for
people like uh all of these people here
that are trying to make something good
so that's why you're you're not
mentioning crypto at all right so uh
yeah so that's that's some that's a real
challenge uh one person that got scammed
once is going to convince 50 people
but one person that uses it how many
people you think is going to actually
convert let's say let's say in a word
two or three people
so that's a challenge uh also
um ux fortunately many tools have been
translated to Spanish into different
allowances around the world but we still
need that Community feeling because in
Latin America we are like very close we
like being in community doing things in
community so uh Community I think is key
so we have a lot of uh let's say people
building these communities now we need
to reach that next billion right so we
need to reach out not those communities
to keep to themselves but how can we
make that scalable let's say not just
convert once and then you get your
crypto friends and then you have your 50
crypto friends and that's it how can you
get that sense of community uh scalable
in a trustworthy way so I think that's
an interesting question and ux I think
is super important
having applications we now see more and
more Crypt applications mobile first
which is great having just enough
information in the screen that you need
I think that's super important to
research and to actually not just
research with crypto people research
with the next billion right because
we're used to having your balance here
your wallet here but what do new users
actually need right so that's a good
question I believe
yeah for us it has been a very
interesting case study
um what we did was we created a
multilingual app it's available in
English first Hindi then and then
Marathi which is another Regional
language in it
um so what happened was we we thought
that okay multilingual app is going to
be very good when we launched it we were
uh we we saw that okay the adoption is
definitely not not much
so what happened was so what what
basically happened we redesigned the
entire system two years back again right
after launching and we put all those
same functionalities which is available
to the farmer from their phone we put
that on the the custodians end because
they we have given we have given
products to everyone to use uh web-based
on mobile based so so that the farmer
can just walk in which is the easiest
thing to do and just request the the
custodian that please help me take a
loan against it
six months eight months down the line or
one year down the line gradually we were
surprised again we saw that farmers have
actually started liking the app I don't
know we did not roll out any major
upgrade we did not add any more
languages it was there what was there
but then I think somewhere the
custodians started making the farmers
believe that it is a very simple app to
use just try it once let me guide you
use the app and then see how it looks
and then they found that yes it's a
one-click process one click loan
application they are not accustomed to
like like everyone else us they are not
accustomed to getting uh getting food
delivered on phone getting Insurance
booked on the click of a button for them
this was the first ever such application
that they were seeing in their lives and
now they have become very confident
using it and as you said that you know
one person how many people would they
say would they you know speak to
regarding the benefits that they've
received in our case word of mouth has
really worked because farmers are very
close right it's a very small community
they have been there in that area since
generation they know which Warehouse is
nearby which is nearby where they have
to go
they just with that word of mouth and
they just started telling everyone that
hey do you know I mean I just got Loan
in 15 minutes I mean in my life my
father has never seen it I have never
seen it uh and and whenever it happened
it was like 13 to 15 days running post
to pillar at Banks and then then you
know getting the loan and whenever
you're running there you are not
basically not farming and you're not
earning so so this was very very
revolutionary for them and now we can
see that that adoption Gap has really
bridged because now they're comfortable
as we move to other states so India has
a lot of regional languages right
hundreds of thousands I think so we
would be just onboarding new languages
which is not a difficult thing for our
developers to do once we do that we have
cracked that okay with the support of
technology and with on-ground support
and which is already there from the
government we don't have to deploy our
boots on the ground so I think I think
that is something that is is working
really well for for farmers in India and
I believe another thing that that comes
to my mind is uh in India again same
thing as you said more more phones than
people in Colombia
um India huge population 1.4 billion
people
but one thing is that with a lot of
changes in fintech uh in in technology
almost every other person is having a
phone now not feature phone a smartphone
right there are very cheap phones if I
talk about Indian rupees it's about what
six thousand five thousand Indian rupees
um maybe maybe uh seventy dollars eighty
dollars so people are buying people are
buying these smartphones and now they
are onboarded onto the technology every
single uh every single you know the cart
roadside cart or vendor or uh or or you
know the auto Wallace right the the uh
the local auto holders everyone has a QR
code you can just scan it and pay it
it's not just us paying via QR code
anymore it's almost everyone paying my
keyword has started paying my QR code
that helps us that acts as a Tailwind
for us because they already have been
using the phones we just say that okay
let me let me open an app in your phone
and that's it now start using this app
for this part of your life and and you
it'll all be solved and then they're
very looking forward to that so that has
helped us a lot in a country like India
when we are going outside we'll see you
know what what other countries use so
we'll have to to adapt to that yeah
maybe to contribute to the user
interface to onboard more Farmers so
it's a combination of the user interface
and user experience casing point in one
of the example in selling Insurance
initially selling Insurance the agent
would work with a folder with forms you
would fill in the form of feeling
feeling Mass signed Etc so bring in a
user interface that that is almost
similar so we started with scratch cards
so a scratch card that they would
scratch reveal a certain number and then
now use the phone the ussd to send that
number and automatically that's how they
were on boarded into insurance we
collect now information in that way
technologically wise using triangulation
with you leave them behind with a card
and they'll say oh this is my insurance
the card but actually the insurance is
something you cannot touch but if such
people now over time are able to dialed
the ussd code without having to scratch
a card or remain in something since
they've trusted the process so that
Journey has to start somewhere slowly
bring them in and build that so we see
the the Need For You user experience
that is well thought out yeah just to
add to that I mean you're solving the
insurance problem honestly so I've tried
selling Insurance before so before
starting this organization I was with
with a company called policy Bazaar
which sells which is an Indian unicorn
sells Insurance even selling Insurance
in an automated way to Urban people to
educated people is a difficult task so
with Farmers I'm pretty sure it's a
daunting task but if it's getting solved
and I think the farmers are really
getting a good service
I I just uh one question to all of you
like you mentioned how much time did
they actually like spent spend to get a
loan yeah how much time is it earlier it
was 13 to 15 days now it's 10 to 15
minutes which is like real time perfect
so what about Guatemala yeah so I was uh
I met some we held a side event the
other day and I mentioned this anecdote
earlier but I was sitting at the dinner
table with my dad and we were talking
about you know I think he's yet to
become a full on sort of crypto convert
um we're working on it but you he was we
were sitting at the dinner table I was
like hey let's both sit down on our
phones and try and get a let's try and
get a loan so he went on his like mobile
banking app had to fill out like a
20-minute survey input all these
different things and he's like oh
they'll get back to me in two weeks
um
I went on Ave put up a you know over
collateralized loan done in five seconds
right and I was like check it out here's
my here's my money
um and and so I think you know literally
in Guatemala could take a number of
weeks to get a loan and that's the magic
of this right and that's sort of a
little bit of what the Yankee shows is
in a matter of seconds right same in
Mexico
in Kenya because of the mobile money
wallet you can get a loan instantly but
now you pay heavily by the time you
calculate is over 120 percent interest
so yeah
that's that's really common by the way
for those of you that are surprised in
in emerging economies or this is a
normal uh interest rate yes yeah I mean
you can pay like you know it's bad when
the interest rate is posted daily and
it's like two percent daily
um so yeah this is the reality of of the
countries that you know we're in and
this is what D5 is here to disrupt and
promise right when you think about the
fact that you can take out a loan on D5
for you know three five percent
obviously there's a lot of questions
here around the collateral et cetera et
cetera
um and but the reality is it's you know
there's there's a lot to be said for how
can we bring down you know interest
rates that are hundreds of percentage
points thousands at times
um down to you know single single uh
single percentage points so just we will
do just like one last question
um and this will be just a bit of a go
around and then would love to open it up
to the audience for for a bit of q a in
the last 10 minutes
um so
the we've got a room here obviously of
people that are all largely probably
very familiar with the space and the
ecosystem and the question would be and
we we spoke previously about what are
the challenges on the other side right
so what are the challenges for the end
users in Africa and Asia and in Latin
America as well uh but I guess I'd like
to flip the question on the other side
of that is like what's coming back to
you to the ethereum ecosystem by
deploying these Solutions right we're no
longer becoming a self-referential
system we're actually able to draw in a
lot of feedback and a lot of input
around user experience around mobile
phone adoption you know all these other
things so if maybe we can just spend
like a few minutes on on that and then
we'll turn it over to the audience for
for a quick q a
um so yeah just feel free to take it
away on what can you know what can the
ethereum community learn from deploying
Last Mile defy Solutions
good
let me maybe let me start with what the
the community has done when it realizes
you're doing something so for us when we
said okay we need to solve this problem
but we immediately got support from the
community the ethereum community is
passionate this the the people who are
here I believe most of the people are
here are passionate so the first help we
got was from Isa risk is a uh they were
they had built a generic Insurance
framework and they said okay uh you can
build your application on top we'll give
you technical support and we'll give you
time and we will always spend ensure
that you're able to run it we received
support from the foundation ethereum
Foundation they helped in the networking
and we also chain link heard about it
because we are using weathering data to
determine whether to pay a claim or not
they say how can we help to ensure that
your source of truth is actually a
source of truth and not only that
moreover financially they got a lot of
financial support got a lot of human
people spending time with you people
experts who are very busy spending time
with you to help you and also now with
that I think we can say the the
community
um and what people should do if you hear
of a good project I think uh we couldn't
have been here if we people didn't just
come and jump in and helped in the in
the in the journey so we could say let's
be lights on the paths of starting
projects and you will see great great
impact because of that so I could say
that's a on the support the community
has helped and now now what what are we
seeing the Community Learning you see
like Lessons Learned for us the
community is able to understand you
can't just directly bring in uh crypto
and you expect the farmer to use So This
research lessons uh other people now are
able to apply on their different
projects if they need to reach the last
mile customers thank you
well first I would like to say that
well
if we are onboarding people from our
countries that let's say as I said live
day by day we're bringing people that
can use these to benefit in their real
life and we can bring actually
these examples and get the community
I mean in give it let's say more empathy
right because sometimes we are yeah I
mean we're here we have a roof we have
uh air conditioning and we're not get if
it rains there's no problem we can go
out and get uh water and drinks and go
to a bathroom and we have everything
right so uh getting these people into
the the space could be very interesting
because that way we could maybe uh
be sensible to the realities of others
and how can they benefit so I think
empathy is an interesting part and also
we're bringing in people that actually
need financing need things
so we can actually also balance the
offer and demand so that could also be
interesting for community
yeah so uh talking about giving back to
the ethereum community right or or
bringing the ethereum community on board
ethereum has reached Millions right and
that's what the purpose of the next
objective is to reach the next billion
um with with all these projects so these
are these are few handful of the
projects in Kenya India Latin America
there are so many more projects that are
already on ethereum or on one of the l2s
and trying to trying to get a larger
share of the ecosystem so I believe that
that by by bringing by the support first
of all with the foundation with the
community it's a huge Community right
the largest of all the chains that we
know all together I think I think we are
at such a right spot to to like be in a
very synergistic relationship where
where the projects need communities no
project Works without Community name any
right and and then once that is done
more and more projects can come on the
Chain come into the ecosystem help each
other reach more masses if we are
reaching maybe a small holder marginal
farmers in India someone else could be
reaching blue-collar workers in in in
Australia or anywhere else right there
are still so many projects and things
that can that can still come on the on
the chain and and I think now is the
right right spot right time to do that
so that's what we're looking forward to
it
incredible thank you I'm uh yeah just
incredibly honored to be sharing the
stage here with you all and we've got a
few minutes left here so
um maybe we'll just take a few questions
uh and then we'll we'll call it a day so
gentlemen with a blue shirt uh you put
your hand up first yep
yeah and sorry if you could maybe we'll
we'll just pass the mic over to you
hello um fellow Latin American here it's
good to hear that it's that this is
doing a this is this this is doing some
good
um I want to know if uh well as I
understand you are all using uh the
blockchain more to register people or
their hashes of their information so are
you planning to use uh to use that
information and that identity you being
a verifier so that for example we they
can use uh protocol similar to the proof
of humanity that was here around an hour
ago
so that for example you can prove that
that person exists a modern just a
person being able to receive a loan
yeah I definitely see us contributing to
proof of humanity for example what
represents a person for us is a
transaction which is hushed so if the
details of the person has the same way
we do the passwords can be hushed
because we don't do that we just just do
the entire thing then we can contribute
in some way because that hash is a
combination of the location of their
names their phone number registered in
government and many other details so we
feel uh looking at how uh what we're
using how can we use this hash to prove
is the truth yeah the ZK roll up Etc I
think it's a part of the thing that can
work so yeah I just want to add to that
likewise we also do not put the direct
details it's it's not right you know
because you have a right to you need to
give a right to forget right
um and once you put all your all their
pis onto the blockchain you cannot
forget them so uh there are these are
the challenges but yeah somewhere if he
can you know you know taking more
solutions and bringing some sort of
identity on blockchain like from the
foundation I was having a very good
discussion regarding so in India we have
aadhar which is like with 1.4 billion
people if we onboard that onto the
blockchain just imagine what kind of
identification can that be right and
then you can subsequently use it
possibly across other chains you know
cross chain as well but yeah it will
always have some challenges it will have
you know uh barriers to entry as well uh
but at this moment I don't think that a
lot of people are putting identity
directly on blockchain or maybe
combining it with some sort of did
decentralized identity and making it
work but not not in 100 of it
yeah in my opinion I think it could be
interesting combining reputation with
proof of humanity because that makes uh
if someone uh for example didn't pay a
saving Circle they get a bad reputation
in their wallet and it's permanent right
um then they can just change wallets
right but linking that to uh proof of
humanity I think that's interesting uh
for a moment we're not putting any
personal information on chain it's your
wallet if you paid or you didn't pay
it's stored with the event of the smart
contract and that's how it's tracked
thank you
um yeah sure right right there
second row
okay
the principle the capital comes from D5
or C5 and the interest rate the initial
guari approximately uh how much pay of
Interest the the taker thank you I think
that the question is to me anyway so
um so uh yeah so that's that's a that's
a beautiful part of the entire platform
since two and a half years banks have
already been giving loans on the
platform 7 million till now that's
completely centralized finance loan as
you can see
now once we go live on the mainnet it
would be uh D5 loans as well they would
be disjointed amongst themselves right
the C5 D5 part but the Pharma would have
access to both from the click of a
button so you see it's a bridge it's not
we are stopping one and starting another
it's just that we're bridging in fact
yeah so that's that's what it's the need
of the art at this moment and whenever
the farmer would see that okay one C5
has a lower interest rate or defazer
lower interest rate they can just go
ahead and choose that option farmer has
nothing to do with which I'm
specifically choosing right one point
here is that for the D5 solution we
would also need an off-ramp solution
because you can imagine I can just go
ahead and give usdc to a farmer and say
that okay yeah you know buy your next
crops uh you know next season cycle for
that with that usdc so that is the
challenge you asked about interest rate
it is uh currently nine percent for
annum so it's very low it's one of the
lowest in India and we have seen across
other countries as well that this
interest rate is very very low uh in the
market and once we go on D5 were
expecting somewhere around seven to
eleven percent again which is a very
stable interest rate in in terms of D5
I'm personally really excited for when a
farmer in India can buy their crops with
crypto that's that's right something to
be excited about yeah
so um yeah deeper there and this will be
the the last question and then uh we'll
just yeah I just wanted to say that
ethereum Foundation has done a great job
by uniting
for I don't know how many fellows are
there in all together there's seven
seven in the second cohort and now you
all are talking to each other and you're
collaborating and learning from each
other but there are many other projects
in the ethereum ecosystem and that are
doing reaching to the next billion
people like this good dollar there's
proof of humanity there is uh human Dao
human Dao is actually bringing work to
people providing economic opportunities
so I think it's very important that
maybe we need to form like a next
billion Dao or something where everybody
can be in one group and then on top of
your like your services you can provide
their services and stuff like that and
learn from each other because uh for
instance good dollars in over 200
countries and as part of my study
because I'm writing a book on impact
that was uh human now and good develop a
part of my studies and they got to learn
about each other and now they're working
together
you know in in a lot of countries that
they're going to so I think it's very
important that we start like a next
billion Dao or something like that
I think that's like a really really
fascinating idea and I mean I think
that's a lot of the the work that I'm
doing is basically ecosystem research
um and what will come out of that is
basically a whole ecosystem map of
different folks working on these
specific Solutions sort of focusing on
defy
um so I think that's a great proposition
I don't know if there's anything else
you guys yeah no it's just similar to
where we were talking about yesterday
like how to gather
these projects in an organized
trustworthy way so yeah interesting
question yeah I think those are pretty
early still because you know so many
more use cases are coming on now but I
think that's a good idea next you know
now for the next billion is is going to
be
good yeah yeah
so I think that's a good thing to
explore and congratulations on your book
yeah
awesome so just last minute maybe just a
quick go-round um where can people find
your work where can they find you and uh
yeah we'll wrap it up yeah you can find
us at be blowings blo like uh block with
the sound of a peak where you put your
piggyback savings that's it
you can find me on Twitter at benjuguna
on in uh
Instagram no no Twitter is uh Benson
understand you're good
on the telegram it's at benjuguna and
email uh
Africa and website africa.com yeah so
for me it's uh it's the product name is
World w h r r l comes from Warehouse
receipt lending with an extra R in
between uh or just search for Abhishek
bhattacharya Twitter is that Abhishek
yeah that's all so I think you should be
able to find this online from the agenda
anyway it's there incredible thank you
yeah
marcus.am as my website and my Twitter
as well and um yeah thank you so much
big round of applause for these
incredible panelists
[Applause]