foreign
[Music]
today I have the pleasure of moderating
a panel that is going to technically
challenge me so I'm just going to be
really good at asking questions
hopefully uh this is about account
abstraction which has been a part of
ethereum as a topic for a very long time
and now that we are post merge maybe we
can actually redistribute some developer
resources to building something that has
always been talked about as something
that is fundamentally crucial to the
future of ethereum and every time I talk
to somebody who's technically minded
they all say that we need account
abstraction it's not an option we have
to have it so we're going to explore why
everyone who's more technical to me are
always like yes accountants attraction
good so on we have Julian Julian Nissa
the co-founder of Argent he is here in
the middle there we go and then on the
far end we have yoab Weiss the security
researcher at the EF and then in the
middle here sitting next to vitalik is
light clients AKA Matt he's on the guest
team and then there's also metallic
what's up guys
yo yep it's great to be here so you guys
can each introduce yourself better than
I can so yeah we'll start with you I
want to give a little bit of your
background and your relationship with
account instruction and why you think
it's so important
well I think yeah sorry uh I think
account obstruction is something that we
must have both for some technical
reasons such as obstructing signatures
for a future Quantum resistance but more
importantly for you for usability if you
want the um I mean even if you want to
really go Bank less
then you need to get you know you need
to get to a usability where the user
never sees a private key user never sees
a seed phrase so that so that my mother
can can use it and if she loses access
to it she wears she has a way to recover
and then you need to have a different
security policies in the account uh such
as for example you wouldn't expect your
bank account to be the same if you are a
large corporation or an individual
customer
maybe you want to have some different
spending policies so all of these things
become possible anything that the bank
bank account can do for you and more can
be done can be done using account
obstruction I think this is a must for
ux purposes certainly and going down the
line of course we have a Julian from
Argent uh Julian so can you explain a
little bit about what Arjun is for those
who are unfamiliar and how it relates to
account instruction
so Arjun it's a smart contract you know
we're a company we've been building
smart contract based wallet since 2010
and basically we started on a mission to
actually solve exactly what account
abstraction is trying to solve
recognizing that the user experience of
EOS will basically never scale and so if
we keep that Paradigm I think we will
remain in the bubble that we are in but
will be unable to reach the next you
know 100 million users or billion of
users because the user experience of
self-q study is too complicated and so
we started building Argent based on you
know to try to fix that and we did that
at the application layer on ethereum so
trying to to build a smart contract
based wallet enabling different security
flows to actually fix the issues that
you have mentioned so for example we
introduced social recovery which is a
way to get rid of seed phrase We
introduced some kind of fraud monitoring
and so on that has been a great
experience but of course we build that
at the application layer meaning that
smart contract wallet are a second class
citizen because the entire ecosystem
it's still built around this Paradigm of
voas I mean developers the tooling
everybody is thinking in terms of EOS
which means that there's some
compatibility issues if you're a smart
contract wallet we like to say that
we've been second class Citizen and so
of course the goal of account
abstraction is to make smart contract
based wallet first class Citizen and of
course that gets us very very excited
uh Matt I've got a special question for
you uh but also uh feel free to
introduce yourself and and tell us what
you do at Geth but also could you after
you do that explain why do we call it
account abstraction what are we
abstracting why is the abstracting word
here uh just to really get things at the
very basement level
sure so I recently joined the guest team
actually so I'm kind of like looking for
my home amongst the guest team I think
that there's many different things that
the get team has focuses on and so I'm
trying to find like where am I a very
specific Focus will end up being so
before that I was part of this team
called quilt and we did a lot of
research and development on future ideas
in ethereum and the first place that I
became involved with account abstraction
was back in the earlier days when we
called the beacon chain eth2 and we
talked about the different phases of the
eth2 deployments and so the quilt team
was working on phase two for eth2 for a
while and we were trying to think about
how to define uh execution environments
in a way that you could abstractly
Define all of the execution semantics
about the virtual machine that was
executing on ethereum and of course like
one of those things that you needed to
Define abstractly was like the account
of logic and so this is where we first
started running into this problem like
vitalik had already talked about in the
relation to the evm like earlier on in
2016 and so and so I guess for me the
the meaning of account abstraction is
actually you know maybe uh not the
perfect way of of defining like what
accounts abstraction actually is it's a
term that has like many meanings for
many different people and for me
whenever I understand accounts
abstraction I think of it more as like
validation abstraction I think of it
like we're trying to abstract what it
means to validate an account in ethereum
and so today if you want to validate a
transaction in ethereum you're going to
recover some address from a signature
look at that address in the state to
determine if the nonce is uh okay for
the transaction that's been sent and
that the account has enough balance and
so that's one way of validating a
transaction but there's many different
ways you could have a multi-signature
you could use different cryptographic
Primitives to to validate a transaction
and so when I think of accounts
abstraction that's what I first and
foremost think about but I also
understand accounts abstraction is you
know used more generally now to think
about smart contract wallets and how can
we add more functionality uh you know to
the protocol or give users a better user
experience when they're interacting with
the protocol and so now I understand
that there's like many ways of like
thinking about it uh vitalik every time
you introduce yourself you always come
up with a new funny different way of
doing it depending on what era of
ethereum you are so I'd love for you to
introduce yourself and how you relate to
ethereum these days and also answer the
question for you why does everyone say
that account abstraction is inevitable
yeah yeah so hi guys I'm vitalik I'm a
fashion influencer and travel blogger at
the ethereum foundation
um
yeah so a chaotic reaction has been a
topic I've been uh like really trying to
push for um almost uh since the
beginning right like you think even
actually uh when ethereum launched the
original Vision I had been hoping for
was to try to get people to use Smart
contract while it's by default right
because I mean we wanted people's money
to be secure and we thought it would be
really nice if people could just have
the default type of accounts be a two of
three multi-sig wallet right and
that that ended up not happening I think
in part because uh the community was
just I'm you know so fed up by yeah
incest and kind of delays on top of
delays for the ethereum 1.0 launch then
at some point we just put our foot down
and said okay you know no more features
unfortunately we have to just like cut
everything and launch something
um but then you know since then we've
been uh trying uh very hard to come up
with uh the right way to actually get to
the point where smart contract wallets
can be the default type of wallet that
people can use and try to get all these
benefits like uh you know security for
multi-cigs you know a social recovery
other types of cryptography and if we
want Quantum resistance more recently
yeah mineral thanks to minnow you know
your evangelo and the others are the uh
the topic of kind of trying to get where
like aggregation to be in here in there
as well to try to kind of save gas and
save data um so
I'm like basically trying to find the
way to bring a smart contract while it's
in and make them actually be as
convenient and have all of the
properties and censorship resistance is
another important property
um that um
externally owned accounts so the default
type of accounts that most people use uh
use now have today and you know it turns
out that there's actually quite a bunch
of challenges and there have been a
whole bunch of various efforts um you
know there's like EIP I think it was 86
and then 210 and then 29.38 and then you
know there's a kind of grab bag of
different proposals um separately the
kind of separately the the strand of
kind of enabling a kind of Delegation I
might which has basically allowing
people to pay for transactions on behalf
of other people which I think is part of
the motivation of like both uh 3074 and
some other proposals like like
that's been basically there's been this
you know really long strand of research
of trying to like really yeah optimize
and figure out like what is the cleanest
and like what is the most sensible and
secure design uh to
get to
um you know what uh actually satisfying
these goals and you know that's what
we're trying to implements and uh roll
out today I want you to check my
understanding on this because I actually
had to do uh some homework to prepare
for this mod this panel because this is
uh technically challenging for me after
kind of figuring out when people explain
account abstraction they were like oh it
enables you to do this and then it
unlocks this feature and it lets us do
that but it kind of feels like we're
feeling uh that elephant metaphor where
somebody's feeling the tail and it's
like a snake and somebody's feeling the
leg it's like oh it's like a tree
without actually seeing the whole thing
so I want you to check check this
metaphor with me
um an externally owned account there's
only two types of accounts on ethereum
you have an externally owned account
which is probably what you use when you
like buy your nfts you have a private
key and it unlocks a wallet and then
there's a smart contract and account
abstraction is putting what we currently
use which is you know our Ledger or our
private keys that unlocks a specific
wallet and it makes our that wallet a
smart contract which more programmable
my mental model for this is that um
a smart a account abstraction is like
putting a chip into a wallet and what I
mean by that is that we have like
Bitcoin which the meme is like Bitcoin
is a calculator ethereum is a smartphone
and I kind of apply that to externally
owned accounts and uh a smart contract
wallets or account extraction wallets
where it's externally owned accounts are
like Bitcoin they don't really do too
much and then externally and then
account extraction wallets are like
ethereum where there's a chip in it is
that metaphor land yeah no no that's a
that's a really fun metaphor I like it
is there anything incomplete about that
and and Matt I want to throw this one to
you uh where you were talking about
um validation abstraction can you
connect these two metaphors how do those
things relate right so I think you know
if you're thinking of the con the
concept of like putting a chip into a
wallet there's like two important pieces
that the wall is doing and the way that
I think about it is that the chip is
dealing with the validation logic like I
mentioned when I spoke a minute ago uh
it's determining like is this uh message
and signature that's coming from account
valid in the context of this account you
could also Imagine the chip did other
things uh after you do the validation
you would have like the execution
portion and so a lot of times when we
think about accounts abstraction as like
a general concept we also think it's
doing a lot of other stuff now and so
that chip is now determined like
I want to send a bunch of transactions
from this account all or I want to send
a bunch of calls from this transaction
or from this account's all-in-one
transaction or I want to recover uh
using like some social Recovery Group
that I've come up with so that's like
another part of the chip
beautiful beautiful and I want to throw
this one to Julian as somebody who's
responsible for actually putting some
smart contract while it's in people's
hands thank you for your service how do
you think this is going to get rolled
out uh people in general and we'll get
into the topic as to why people think
that everyone will have a a smart
contract wallet rather than externally
owned account in the future but what's
like what's your idea for how this gets
rolled out into how do we replace
private keys with externally uh with
account extracted wallets
so that's that's a very good question I
think the the way I see it is that I
think I mean vitalik has been pushing
for a kind of abstraction for a long
time and every single proposal has some
you know enabled some of the features of
account abstraction but none of them I
think is the end game uh and and
personally for example I like the last
proposal 4337 but the problem is that
it's still it's at the application layer
so we are not fixing what I think is the
real problem is getting rid of of voas
and I understand that on ethereum
there's so much at stake that such a
drastic change will take time I think
people are recognizing that account
abstraction is the future I think it
will happen but on ethereum I think it
will take time what we've been pushing
at Urgent is that I think now we are
seeing the emergence of layer twos and I
think layer 2's are an amazing
opportunity to actually try to test some
of these you know and try to fix some of
these limitations of the evm that we
have only one because there's much less
at stake and then each layer two they
may favor a different type of trade-offs
so we can explore on different patterns
and actually bring alcohol abstraction
at the at the layer twos right now so
this is what we are pushing and that
will enable us to better understand you
know the limitations what we can do and
and following that I think then we'll
have everything enhanced to actually
bring that to layer one and push for a
kind of fraction at really the protocol
level only one that's the way I see the
roadmap of account abstraction not
folding beautiful and and you'll have
you're a security Reacher at EF so I
want to tap into your security mind why
are smart contract wallets more secure
like what security benefits from a user
perspective or whoever might else
whatever entity might also use a Smart
contract wallet why why is it more
secure than our current wallets
well then uh this is a there are many
different ways in which it makes you
more secure first of all is a key
management users users don't know how to
manage Keys even expert users and they
just I think that five years from now if
we we recall that we used to secure our
assets by writing 12 words on a piece of
paper it will seem unreal to us so I
think uh for example being able to add
devices to add devices to your wallet so
the wallet is no longer associated with
some seed phrase you never actually see
but instead you add your phone you add
your computer then if you lose your
phone you remove it and add a new one
using your computer so um and so this
allows this obviously improves the
security because you don't need to
manage keys and then there's the uh
there are things like for example you
could say that your wallet is uh that
you can you can have good usability and
spend small amounts easily you using
your phone but if you are doing
something out of the ordinary such as
sending a very large amount
in that case in that case you have to go
get your Ledger or something you had you
have to add another signature so it
allows you to have a security policies
to protect yourself
and there's the the other Security
benefits of switching of switching to a
better signature scheme which we're
going to have to do in the future anyway
um and since since it's programmable you
can add any any security mechanism you
come up with and different users will
have different uh we'll have a different
requirements so having just a single
security policy for accounts which is
what we have with EOS I mean the
security policy for a foreign AOA is if
you have the key do anything if you
don't have the key do nothing this is
not granular enough
so I think being able to have a to have
personalized security policies will make
ethereum overall more secure
I think um the way that I see account
objective wallet smart contract wallets
there's this unique relationship with
devices and we all have a bajillion
devices in our homes uh like when I said
on my computer I have my computer in
front of me I got my phone and then
maybe there's an iPad and those are
three devices each with different levels
of security assumptions around them like
my computer is at home it doesn't go
anywhere my mobile phone can go anywhere
in the world but all of these things can
you talk about the relationship between
a device and the wallet and how that can
relate to a different level of security
of control of access right so maybe I
only want to send a hundred dollars with
my phone but I can send all of my money
with my computer can you talk about the
relationship with a device and a smart
contract wallet yes this this should
definitely be a part of the security
policy for your wallet
um so yes you could say that you can use
your phone to do small things but your
computer for a for bigger things I'm
actually not sure I'm sometimes your
phone could actually be more secure
because uh on your computer may or may
not have the capability of security of a
on of a secure enclaves but phones
modern phones they usually do now the
problem is that at the moment you
couldn't use it within AOA because it
doesn't support the signatures the
ethereum use it doesn't support the same
curve but with account obstruction it
becomes it becomes possible and someone
actually just built built a nice demo of
such wallet at the hackathon here in
Bogota
so um you can have so if you can
associate the fingerprint of a specific
device and you can you can have a
fingerprint on your device which is
actually verified by a secure Enclave on
your phone and then the signature
happens inside it so your phone actually
gives you a pretty good pretty good
security but in any case you have to
evaluate that for example your phone is
coming with you your computer stays at
home so you have to evaluate your unique
situation and set up a policy where you
decide which device can do what and
maybe sometimes you need the to use two
of the devices maybe sometimes you need
to go also get your Ledger from the safe
so it's up to you to say to decide how
each device is going to be used in your
wallet
I think the important important thing to
take a note from here is that we're
using devices to relate to a wallet
differently rather than having a
different wallet on every single device
and so Julian I want to throw this one
to you and now you guys are thinking
this at Argent and check my
understanding here is like I've got I've
got a wallet here on my phone I've got a
wallet on my my metamask on my computer
I've got a wallet on my ledger there's
three different wallets but now we're
talking about three different ways of
interfacing with the same wallet which
is a different different kind of just
organizational structure so do you think
that like we're just going to be able to
kill most of the wallets all these like
throwaway wallets that we use and
instead of like having a little bit of
cash in some wallet and a medium amount
of cash in another wallet and then like
cold storage it's actually going to be
the same wallet and we just have
different levels of security of how to
access these things how are you
designing Argent to work inside of this
Paradigm I think the first thing for me
and the beauty of account obstruction is
that you can choose as a user so I don't
think there's one model that fits for
anyone there are users that may want
ones who have different accounts for
privacy reasons for example so I think
there's not one model that that fits all
but of course in terms of origin we like
to see the origin wallet the main
account if you want as your identity on
chain and so yes having the ability to
choose the security Associated to the
key that that's in a different device is
of course very very important and so at
Arjun we are researching a lot of
different IDs for example now we're
exploring something called session Keys
is the idea to have an ephemeral keys to
which you can attach very strict
policies so you can literally say this
key is valid for 24 hours and it can
only call a certain method on a certain
certain contract and so you can imagine
for example if you consider that your
phone is more secure because I agree
with you I think my phone is more secure
than my laptop but maybe I can actually
have a key on my laptop that has
restricted policies and so that kees can
do certain action but I Define exactly
the type of actions and and the rules
that are associated to to that key but
to answer your question for me it's
really about giving the choice to users
and I think that's again the beauty of
Icon obstruction is that it opens a
completely new design space for what an
account can be and I think we are only
scratching the surface of of what can be
done at origin we see it as as your
identity it's your our account you may
have multiple accounts with
different rules for example it's a good
example if I'm playing an Unchained game
I may not want to play a non-chained
game on which I have say 50 in a certain
token I don't want to play that game
with the same account on which I have
all my savings for example so I think
having the ability to have different
account with different rules and
different logic is actually what account
abstraction brings
and I I think I just wanted to add that
uh for even for privacy reasons you want
to have multiple wallets because you
don't want to docs yourself everywhere
uh it's still the fact that we decouple
the we decouple the device and the keys
from the wallets means that you can have
all of them associated with a
fingerprint on your same phone so you
choose which one you're using based on
whatever privacy you want to have but
you still use the same device
you don't need a different device for
each wallet I'm going to turn this
conversation to how we actually get
account abstraction implemented at the
layer one because this is going to take
a an EIP this is going to take a hard
Fork to get this into ethereum uh and I
want to throw this one to vitalik our
resident crypto philosopher here uh
crypto loves tribes we got like the
layer one tribes we've got the layer two
tribes are there like uh account
abstraction tribes and if there are what
do they fight over
I mean I kind of feel like the tribeness
of account abstraction is like a bit
overstated in that I don't like I don't
really see many competing camps of
approaches for like let's say how to
solve the problem of uh I have a smart
contract as well and I want to be able
to send things from that smart contract
wallet without needing you know some
third party to wrap my transaction and
pay 21 000 gas overhead or whatever
right but there's the different camps I
think are more kind of just groups of
people that came into the space of
improving accounts with different
emphasis right so like the like the
emphasis that I came with is solving the
yep the the problem of like how to make
it easier for people to have Smart
contract while it's with arbitrary
validation other people came in with the
emphasis of solving the yeah problem of
how to let people pay for other people's
accounts or how to let someone who has
usdc only pay other fees in usdc instead
of paying fees and if
um so and then you know there's also the
idea problem of uh how to let an account
to do many operations in one transaction
and though these are not really yeah
they're not competing goals right I
think they're goals that like everyone
here agrees that we need a solution that
covers all of them right and I think you
know there's uh I mean different ideas
that are slowly kind of convert
converging toward
um some architecture that can that
actually does kind of do is getting
better and better at actually fitting
together
um and in service of like how to get
from here to there like one of the
differences between
eip2938 and erc4337 right is that 4337
is an ERC is 2938 is an EIP and 2938 is
a kind of boil the ocean let's change
the protocol now and like let's you know
set things right in the protocol sort of
solution 4337 is an extra protocol
solution right and it's a
kind of analogous to sort of the roll-up
Centric roadmap in some way right which
is you know part of part of the
motivation there is like the core
developers are busy and you know there's
the merge and there's the Surge and
there's a splurge on The Purge and uh
you know some people wants to call
singles to what finality of the George
um but uh
you know the yeah and then you know
because uh 4337 is an ERC we can kind of
work on it separately get it and you
know have a small amount of usage just
start fairly quickly get it until twos
and improve it from there from there
over time but I guess the the one kind
of big difference here is that I think
over time like especially over the last
year there has been this realization
that like we do want eips like as in
things that hard work change the
ethereum protocol eventually because
like we do want to upgrade existing EOS
like we want to let existing users that
don't want to you know go through the
the expense of just completely moving
everything from their current account to
what we want to let them enjoy the
benefits of the AI new system
and we might you know we want benefits
like say yeah you know sensor any
censorship resistance guarantees that we
get from inclusionalists so I would want
that to apply to account obstructed
operations and you know if we want these
different things to
up or like happened then that does
require making a protocol changes right
but the yeah the good news is that kind
of the ERC comes first and the EIP has
come later and there's a lot of these
kind of great proposals for how to do
these uh yeah these eips and like there
is definitely a kind of a deep
multi-year multi-stage roadmap involved
where like it's you know it starts off
in uh kind of making it friendly for the
API people that kind of wants to Pioneer
and what and I really care about getting
these properties um early and then you
know expanding more and more until
finally um you know eoas may may
actually uh you know finally kind of go
away and we really do just have Smart
contract wallets and all the benefits
are available for everyone so if I'm
understanding correctly like the current
state of account instruction development
is that we haven't yet come to consensus
as to what the EIP that we want to put
into the ethereum base layer is like we
know eip1559 we totally wanted that I
don't think there is an equivalent EIP
for account abstraction that we have
there there is an ERC and to be clear
right it's important to remember that
like with just the ERC we can already
get to the point where you know if
people wants to like replace their
entire activity and like run it off of
account abstracted wallets instead of
regular ones like they can do it and it
works reasonably well right but but the
EIP is for the second stage of the
roadmap indeed like there are like we
didn't there's we do not have those cips
yet they're under development there's um
lots of different there's lots of
different uh different ideas and it's
still solidifying if I can add to that I
think I was I was saying some layer twos
are actually experimenting on that if
for example if you look at starknet and
zika seeing they are launching with
Native icon obstruction which is
actually inspired by erc4337 so even if
it's just an ERC finale ethereum it's
actually inspiring layer 2's that can
actually try to implement the next step
which I think will come in a later EIP
when we will change that at the protocol
level on only a one but I think it's
interesting to realize that it's already
there on certain Leo tools if you look
at stagnet it's still in Alpha but
actually it loans with Native like an
abstraction so there's no more eras it's
actually trying to be the end goal and I
think that we learn a lot on the Star
Credit Simpson that we can then bring
back to the next CIP that will put
hopefully 4337 to the one layer down to
the protocol level
if it's okay if I mean just make a
comment on this I think that this idea
of layer twos experimenting with future
potential core changes to the ethereum
protocol is really interesting and I
think things like Stark net is a very
interesting place for it to happen
because it's very different than what
the evm actually looks like and I think
it's probably the right place for those
things to happen but I'm still hesitant
about understanding how this is going to
play out across all of the different
layer twos because we've seen over the
last 18 months there's been a huge push
for things like evm equivalence and
having something that's exactly like
ethereum and trying to bring things like
4337 into the protocol I'm not sure how
it's going to play out on those
different types of systems yeah that's a
very good question but I mean we're
discussing with some of the team like
like Alby Trump optimism want to have
that evm equivalence but they all
recognize that they'll also need to have
account abstraction at some point and so
they want to capture the evm ecosystem
but at the same time they would want to
have a construction and so that
conversation is on right now and
hopefully we can find a path to make
that happen on on these you know these
these layer twos that want to be as
close as possible to you have an
equivalent UFC casing V2 for example
that wants to be equivalent but also
wants to have a kind of abstraction so I
think even if you're going for the evm
equivalence I think it's good to try to
push the I mean modify the evml a little
bit so that you can still capture that
that compatibility and the fact that you
have a common standard with different
layer tools but still try to fix some of
these issues if you can so I think this
conversation is on right now there's no
clear path yet for sure but I do think
it will probably append on layer 2's
before it will happen earlier once yeah
I mean one way to look at like how much
equivalence you need is kind of from the
point of view of the user right so like
I have you know my ethereum wallet like
zero xd8da blah blah blah and one of the
nice things that um the eoas offer is
that neck one with just the same wallet
the same code the same key scheme the
same everything I can just you know
switch to all optimism and with the send
the transaction on optimism switch to
Arbitrage and transaction on arbitrum
and so forth right the other benefit is
that I get the exact same address like
you can go and send things to Xerox d88
blah blah and optimism and I'm gonna
have them right or
you could send things to Xerox data blah
blah on arbitrary and I'm gonna have
them right and
eip4337 like you know it does try hard
to make that possible Right like it
definitely makes it possible to you know
use the same con the same code and have
the same type of contract while on all
of these Roll-Ups and because the
Singleton is created with create two
um you it's gonna the Singleton is going
to have the same address on all the
Roll-Ups and so you're going to be able
to uh like anything derived from a
Singleton including people like people's
individual wallets are also going to
kind of have the same addresses right so
like one one thing that you know like
people you know ZK Stark and similar
systems could do is like try to achieve
kind of like that code in Azure s
equivalence for example you know even
while experimenting what's trying to
like make the way they handle operations
much cleaner and different and just a I
want to go back to what Matt was saying
just to really drive this point home
about how layer twos are going to be
like the testing bed for account
abstract action Matt can you just kind
of walk us through into the future about
how you think this may play out like ZK
sync does some sort of flavor of account
abstractions Dark Knight does a
different one the market decides what
they like we sort of come to consensus
as to what features should be pushed
down to the layer one how is this going
to work out in the future I mean
honestly I'm just really curious to see
how it plays out in the future I think
you know my perspective is I'm very
worried about fragmentation of different
approaches and I think if we think about
maybe on the longer time skills 10 years
maybe eventually we'll come to some
Solution that's great and everybody will
do it just because all the other uh you
know all the other companies will have
have run out of money and you know left
the ecosystem
but I think I'm very worried about the
like shorter term like three to five
years like how how are we going to be
able to bring millions of people into
this ecosystem and have like really good
experiences using applications if every
single protocol has a different way of
doing account abstraction I can't
imagine trying to support like 10
different ways of doing account
abstraction in ether's JS or web3 JS and
so that's kind of like my perspective is
like how can we do this in a way that we
avoid the fragmentation and that's why
my perspective is that we should really
consider using the evm on the ethereum
mainnet as the shelling point for
coordination amongst all these different
protocols
is there going to become a moment where
at some point this turns from like oh
we'll talk about account of traction and
we'll ideate on it to like oh we need to
pull the fire alarm and ship this thing
is that is there like a fire alarm event
potential in the future where like we
need to get this done starting a ship
already yeah I think I mean we've had no
safes for a long time as well so the
smart contract wallets have existed we
want to like improve the experience of
using them and I wanted to say like
earlier like I think it's really cool
understanding all the different uh
security perspectives of account
obstruction and the different policies
of different devices but the way that I
think about it a lot more is how can we
improve the user experience of using
ethereum and that's something that I
think like we're still really lagging
behind and to me the reason that we're
lagging behind is because there is
fragmentation across different wallets
different protocols from my point of
view I do see some kind of of urgency
because I and for me it's related to
self-q study I think self-q study today
because of vlas is really hard we all
know that and we because of that a lot
of people are actually turning to
centralized solution I mean if we ask
the audience most of us here we have a
binance or an FDX or a coinbase account
even though we are the builders and the
early adopters so my fear is that if we
don't
find a way to to to have a good user
experience for self-care study then my
fear is that the next wave of users may
turn more and more to centralized
solution and then will it fail as an
ecosystem and in my opinion account
abstraction is actually the only way to
to enable this user experience that can
big self-q study but still make it
simple for user so I do feel a certain
sense of urgency yeah
that's a good point and I feel like for
me the urgency is like how do we make
smart contract walls the default
everywhere because defaults are sticky
and so if I go to minta nft on openc and
I create a metamask following some
tutorial that's the default that I'm
stuck with for a long time it's very
hard for me to migrate to the smart
contract world and so figuring out how
to make that the first thing that people
see whenever they come onto all of the
different protocols is very very
important yeah fully agree
no
um okay so uh to my knowledge the
current state of Defy is unfriendly to
account obstructure and in smart
contract wallets can one of you guys
explain why that's the case why is that
the case and how do we fix it yeah so I
wouldn't say that defy in general is is
not really there are some doubts that
are that are summed up that make it
difficult for example uh
um for example they assume that you can
sign directly with the address so and
contracts cannot sign contacts do not
have a private key
so if you need to login for example to
openc by using uh if you need to log in
by signing a message with your address
then you're unable to log in and we have
an ELC to solve that a very old one
actually a 1271
which defines how a contract can
validate that I can say is signature
valid so summed up support it some don't
and assume in AOA we need to have
developers to stop it to stop doing this
sort of thing and assume that some of
the that some of the addresses are
actually contracts uh that's the that's
like the minimum requirement in order to
make it the first class citizen so I
want to run through some potential use
cases just to make things really
Concrete in the imagination of of the
people in the audience here and the
listeners uh so I want you to each of
you to think of the most powerful use
case that account abstraction unlocks
and how that on boards new people new
utility into ethereum you each get one
and whoever is going to go first is
going to have the the opportunity to
have the best one you're gonna give it
to you what's the what's the best use
case that account abstraction unlocks
well you know there are there are
millions of use cases some of them quite
exotic I'm tempted to talk about them
but instead I just repeat that being
able that being able to obstruct the
signature and to have as to have
authentication and authorization
obstructed and let the user control it
that's the single most important thing
in my opinion
I think just to make the concept of
abstraction more concrete for people
right like one of one of the big use
cases is multi-cig wallets and social
recovery wallets right so multisig
wallet's pretty simple I mean we have n
keys and you need you know some n over
two or some number of them so I for
example you have you know six keys and
you need four of them in order to assign
a transaction right like that's uh like
most of my money is in a four of six
ignosis safe right and like that you
know it's it's public info it's on
etherscan but
um then the social recovery wallet is
like a wallet where you can sign things
uh with instant transactions with one
key but if you lose your key then there
is you know some other mechanism which
itself probably could be a multi-cig
right so uh the like one thing you could
do is like you know choose some like
five friends and three and three of them
can can kind of make it up and that
mechanism can change the key of your
account if you lose it right so the
philosophy there is like in practice
people's accounts getting lost there's a
big it happens much more often it's a
bigger problem than accounts getting
stolen and so you know you can solve
that problem without sacrificing any
convenience and that makes sense for you
know a lot of smaller and medium value
use cases right so the challenge though
is that you know if you want the
benefits of uh either the security like
the security the protection against
theft and like the kind of you know the
really hardcore and security of a
multi-sig wallets or the easier recovery
of a social recovery wallets you have to
put your funds into a smart contract
wallet right and smart contracts exist
and like you can do this today but the
problem is that if you want to actually
send the transaction then like you have
to also have money in an eoa and the eoa
has to pay gas or you know you have to
work through an intermediate area then
you have to rely on that intermediary
and then what if that intermediary
starts censoring and that or or even
just you know disappears or whatever and
uh it you know that you end up wasting
gas and there's just like a lot of extra
money black City involved which is I
mean what basically you know what we're
trying to get rid of here right so I
think like you know multi-sigs and
social recoveries are one easy use case
of abstraction but then another one is
being Quantum proof right like when the
quantum computers come we yeah we all
have to like get move get out of ecdsa
entirely and is there a timeline on that
unknown
um
uh it's unknown but uh but what's but
what's great about our current process
even with the ELC is that we can start
moving away from it we don't have to do
it one day we can uh we can start moving
gradually and over time you'll see less
and less wallets relying on relying on
ecdsa
so we can start moving there it's not a
one day
any utilities that vitalik and yov
didn't mention that come to mind about
account instruction
batch transactions
why is that such a big deal why do we
need that have you ever used the
blockchain
a few times I've been known yeah what
can you uh do it give us a user story
about like how this is a ux Improvement
as a good core developer I don't use the
blockchain very often but when I do use
the blockchain I have to sign so many
messages to send anything I have to
approve my tokens to go to a contract I
have to send them then I have to approve
more tokens to go to a different
contract all for the same application
and to me it's like we could be making
this all a single message to go on chain
so you're saying that account extraction
allows us to
produce the ux that people kind of
expect there to be in the long term that
we don't have today more or less I don't
think it's just a count abstraction like
I think that we could be living in this
world today what I would really like to
see is like some sort of mechanism for
dapps to let the wallet know that I
would like to send a batch of operations
and the wallet can determine whether or
not it has the capability of sending
those in an atomic batch and so like I
would imagine that you know you go to
uniswap and you need to approve and then
do a swap rather than having that pop up
as two dialogues if you have metamask it
could show and say I want you to sign
two different transactions to do these
two things to complete the operation
that you would want and metamask would
send out those two transactions and
verify that they both happen if you have
a noses safe or an Arjun wallet it would
get that message and it would say I want
you to do two operations but you have
the ability to send them all in one
transaction so now you just sign one
transaction and send that off that's
something that we could just have today
that I think we're totally missing
and actually a good example of that in
practice is on the stagnet ecosystem
there's a like nft Marketplace and and
there they've introduced the concept of
a shopping cart so when you go you can
actually do your shopping in a sand you
want to buy that Nifty in that one that
one and you will pay different token and
at the end of your session you go to
your shopping cart you say buy these
items now and your smart contract
without orchestrate all these operations
so it will do all the approved on the
C20 token that are needed and then
purchase all these nfts also exactly
this is I think the multi-code is a
great example social recovery is another
great example so I come last but I still
think something that I find very
interesting is the idea of off-road
monitoring because I think the problem
with the blockchain is that I mean we
make users or there are Bad actors and
it's sometimes very complicated to know
exactly what you are doing as a
transaction typically you'll see some
you know some called Data or something
that is very obscure and it's very
complicated for us as a human to
actually you know know the the actions
that that we are making and with a smart
contract our current abstraction you can
imagine for example that you you program
a second key on your account that must
co-sign every transaction so you turn
your account in the two of two multisig
but then you can choose to give that key
to a service that may monitor the
operation that you are about to do and
so that service if it takes that the
call data is legit it's something that
you know is secure you can co-sign
automatically it's transparent to the
user but now you're making a last
transfer to an address that you've never
interacted with maybe you can just ask
you to confirm who you are with a second
sector like email and SMS or Google load
or something so using a construction we
can actually bring the flows that user
normal user are expecting you know bring
the best of web 2 or of the banking
world but actually reproduce that purely
on chain so I think yeah for me it's
really multi-core social recovery and
and fraud monitoring are three ways that
we can greatly improve the the user
experience for users
one thing I'm still uncertain of is is
how we we want everyone to have a smart
contract while we assume that everyone
will eventually have a smart contract
while as everyone is in this room and
also all future users of ethereum how
does that actually happen as in who are
the service providers we have somebody
like Arjun who's producing a smart
contract wallet but what are the other
categories of how smart contract wallets
get into the hands of users uh like I
could imagine for example like I'm
logging into some web3 game and I need
to use a wallet for that where does that
wallet come from who provides that
wallet and maybe maybe that's what Nosa
safe is but maybe not like what are the
categories of who's providing all of
these wallet uh wallets to us all the
users like are there different
categories out there
I think my philosophy on this is that
like one of the really strong ideas here
is that we want to be as a kind of
active intermediary minimized as
possible right to the point of like
basically you know in an ideal world not
requiring any active intermediaries that
don't uh already exist in eoa land right
um so the yeah like you know there are
people there are kind of it's you know
acts once in that intermediary is what
that could you know do their thing and
then disappear which are you know smart
contract wallet authors wallet
developers and people like that but look
we don't want to how to
depend on you know like active a kind of
relaying actors of some kind for example
right which is um you know that like the
status quo is that you do need Asia like
you do need to talk to a specific
relaying actor if you want a uh you know
if you don't have your own um Ela and
you want to use a transaction through a
smart contract well right and I think
you know censorship resistance is a good
reason to minimize activities or Media
or it's just kind of Simplicity but it's
like it takes a while to get there right
so erc4337 it works through in Mev
ecosystem so it kind of Acts makes it it
relies on Builders to access
intermediate areas and then you know the
goal of uh the the various kind of
longer term EIP is just to kind of
constricts that more and sort of
protocolize that I mean more and more
over time
so we are okay five minutes we're gonna
try and find some time for questions so
if you have questions start thinking of
them now but um as we wrap this up I
wanted to do some call to actions and
there's a very various different like uh
stakeholders in this uh in the world of
account extraction we got core devs
application devs layer two teams and
users each of these people have their
own sort of responsibility for getting
account extraction out into the world
um so uh let's start with the core devs
what do the core devs need to do to get
abstraction done what do they need to
pay attention to we talk I'll throw that
one to you
L1 core devs not I would say yeah not
much yet okay um L2 core devs I think um
or are important for them to be yeah
kind of on the ball earlier because I
think
there's a lot of reasons why l2s are a
very natural uh kind of uh testing
ground for account obstruction I mean
first uh
because uh later look there's just lower
fees on layer twos and lower two fees
especially for computation right so the
overhead of accountable to action
matters was they can iterate and they
can develop and build a lot of things
more quickly also one thing we didn't
touch on this panel yet is that um eap4
or erc4337 has this some aggregation
feature in it which allows basically
different uh signatures of different
transactions to get aggregated together
into one it's the
same sort of stuff as the aggregation
technology that powers the if the yeah
ethereum a beacon chain and that allows
so many validators to make their
attestations and for those attestations
to be kind of packaged together into one
world thing that can be verified very
quickly and that's important like that's
super important lawyer too is right
because some lawyer two is computation
is or data is even more expensive than
computation and aggregation like really
yeah saves on data right and so for
those reasons that local leader tours
are an even more natural kind of first
use case for um
abstraction and then layer ones and
there's a lot that we were tools can do
right like Layer Two is right you know
they run sequencers and they're in the
process of figuring out how to
decentralize those sequencers and as
part of those processes making their
leaders support account abstraction and
are accounts abstracted transactions and
accounts natively is something that's uh
really important right so and then in
the one longer term once the Asia layer
1 EIP has started coming in then mineral
core developers need to start paying
more and more attention to it
Matt what's your big call to action to
the world what do we need to do to move
the needle forward on this one
um there's two things I would really
like to see my colleague Sam Wilson has
started a bi-monthly call called all
wallet devs I think that if wall
developers are not aware of it it's an
awesome thing to to see what the current
discussions around improving wallets are
and account abstraction is obviously one
of them and I think the second thing is
something that we can be doing today to
improve the user experience of dapps is
this is like creating a new interface
for adapt developers to Define that
they're trying to do a batch of
operations together and then allowing
the wallet on the back end to decide
whether to send that as an individual
transaction or as multiple transactions
I think if we do that then we start to
show the core developers that we're
really serious about batch transactions
in smart contract wallets and I think
that that will really improve you know
their feelings about changing the
protocol to support that type of
Technology Julian what's your big call
to action yeah I agree with that I was
going to say I think that developers as
well of course Leo tools I've mentioned
that in vitalik mentioned that but I
think that developers today could start
to embrace patterns like EIP 1271 just
to verify option signature I think just
making sure that you adapt today is
compatible with smart contract wallet
and as you mentioned we can extend that
to multiple but I think that would that
would give already a good sign and that
also means that
if you know
erc4337 picks up and people build more
and more wallet on top of that they will
become more and more first class citizen
even on L1 I think they've never reached
the point of having full first one first
class citizen but making sure every
single dab is compatible with smart
contract wallet I think will make it
easier to go on that Journey towards
full account abstraction
you'll have tickets home and also you
have is the uh the person that actually
helped educate me a lot on uh for this
panel because I was definitely not
prepared more than a week ago so yoab
thank you uh for your help what's the
big call to action that you have uh to
how we get account abstraction into the
hands of everyone yeah so uh so the
first thing is what everybody here
already said that adapts need to be
compatible with it and not get in the
way by requiring signatures and and they
can start thinking about ways of course
batching batching has met already
explained but even Beyond batching start
thinking about ways in which a contract
wallet could improve the ux of your way
of your application and work with the
wallet developers in places like in
places like all wallet Dev the Discord
start walking with the world developers
to add the features that to other
features that become possible with this
and for all the developers to start
thinking about about
interesting ways to use this to improve
the life of your users such as using gas
obstruction models maybe you know allow
users to allow users who do
non-financial stuff to pay with a credit
card and not buy crypto at all and there
are many things that the wallet could be
doing using account obstruction to make
the user's life easier so start thinking
about that
and there's a so I I posted a
presentation with many with many cool
use cases that you could build using it
so um so I could
so I think going through this list and
seeing what could help your wallet
become better maybe interesting and I
think just again to really just drive
this point home ethereum is a technology
that is working on expressing itself uh
starting in 2015 it was limited and now
we have proof of stake now we have layer
twos we have ethereum can express itself
a little bit better but it's not going
to be done expressing itself until
wallets themselves are expressive as the
Turing complete nature of ethereum
itself and so we will actually not see a
complete ethereum until we all have
Smart contract wallets and that is how I
will finish this panel panelists thank
you so much for helping me explore this
world
[Applause]
foreign
I assumed that we actually did not have
time for questions but apparently we do
so I'm gonna let somebody else Steward
that hey thanks I'm just wondering when
is Arjun planning to become ERC 437
compliance I guess that's a question for
me
so
for the moment we something that's
something that we're exploring that that
we want to research but our focus is
really on I would say native account
abstraction on Leo twos and that's why
we're building on stock net and ZK Singh
and I think we kind of have our hands
full with that already still discussing
with our earlier twos to see if we can
convince them you know to to move
forward with that as well so for the
moment we are exploring with Falls 337
but again just to highlight that on
Stockton and DK Singh it's actually
heavily inspired by 4337 so it's
actually what we are already supporting
but on on this chain so at the moment no
plans but that's for sure something that
we are discussing internally and
researching
uh jog this question is for you I Tried
reading erc4337 the other day and could
you explain a bit why it's such a hard
read uh well first of all because uh we
are not very good writers I guess but I
mean we could we could have written it
in a clearer way and maybe even split it
to more than one more than one ELC but
the other the other reason is that it
really is complicated
so it really is complicated because we
paid a lot of attention to to keep
things decentralized by having a mempool
and keeping the mempool keeping the main
pool protected
so um so to prevent a Dos attacks that
would bring the system May on his knees
so uh this so yeah this this made a
difficulty then I understand that uh hi
everyone uh I work at Diagon and we're
working on bringing subscriptions on
ethereum we're currently using meta
transactions do you think metal
transactions will be less relevant when
when accounts obstructions will go live
so the issue with the meta transactions
right is like one you need some kind of
mechanism to like figure out you know
who's going to pay on your behalf and
connect you to the person paying on your
behalf and these like if this depends on
specific actors then like that becomes a
censorship vector and they might
disappear and all of these things and
also emitted transaction requires like
this extra gas cost of 21
000 uh per transaction right on top of a
smart contract overhead so like I think
it's important to remember that erc4337
like it is similar to meta transactions
in a lot of ways and like it uses very
similar ideas but like it does add this
like oh open mempool to solve to kind of
remove dependence on specific actors and
it adds this kind of like batching
problem to like basically cut the yeah
21 000 overhead to uh one uh to one per
block so I like I view it as a kind of
iteration on the same idea
if I can just add on that I think with
Native account abstraction there's no
more meta transaction because the
account can pay transaction fee by
itself so the day if we bring 4337 to
the protocol level there is no more meta
transaction because you just sign with
the keys you send your transaction and
then the account will automatically
validate and if you validate the
transaction we'll pay the fee directly
to the miner so if we go to full account
abstraction there's no more there's no
more need to have a meta transaction and
we layers here hey everybody
um yeah firstly thanks David I'm a big
fan of bankless
um these are great conversations and uh
vitalik I'm a fan of ethereum so thank
you for that
um also a fan of ethereum
somebody mentioned that like more
wallets are lost than are stolen so I
kind of want to zoom in on like the
social recovery aspect I think if we're
going to onboard the next wave of users
we can't expect them to have crypto
friends or Hardware wallets already
right
um
so I know that Argent has some
functionality where you can kind of back
up a share of your key to Google Drive
I'm from ultimate.money we do something
similar with Apple iCloud accounts
because we've read that 95 are 2fa
encrypted
um so like do we as a community kind of
accept that we're going to stand on one
leg of like either you know Google drive
or Apple iCloud
um you know if we're trying to onboard
people that are really like new to
crypto is that something we accept
yeah so um so I think once you have a
recovery built into the wallet
um you could you could use different
mechanism first of all if you don't have
crypto friends and you don't mind some
centralization you could have for
example you could have a service like a
professional Guardian someone with
someone who can verify your identity and
then recover your wallet and you could
use a centralized centralized Solutions
like a Google drive or apple that's also
fine but if you use if you had to use
this within AOA it means that Google has
control over over your account and maybe
they lock you out of it at some point
but but since you can have as many keys
as you want for the recovery you can
actually have you can use a centralized
way for login like log in with Google or
anything anything of this sort and then
and still keep a more complex recovery
mechanism for the case where they decide
AI to sensor you for example
so you can benefit from both from both
worlds here my question was for for
Julian yeah so the way we see social
recovery is kind of in a sense it's a
protocol so every users will want to use
different mechanism to you know to get
back access to to the wallet so yeah we
don't expect people to have crypto
friends and to rely on your friends but
maybe if you're a more crypto expert you
may just want to use a hardware wallet
that you control and you can put that
you know in a safe in a bank and if
something bad happens you can use that
that's how we want it so that's one
option you can actually give that key to
a centralized service that you trust but
the day you don't trust it you can just
remove it or or you can actually combine
so you can you can use a centralized
service and a hardware wallet I think it
really depends on on the user if you
have fifty dollars it's probably okay to
give that recovery key you know that
that to to ask is is centralized service
that you trust to act as your guardian
but of course if you have millions that
may not be acceptable so you may want to
use two three Hardware wallets that you
put in different states so the way we
see is that recovery is really a
protocol and and depending on users we
can build on top of that the user
experience that they need depending on
the use case and where they are in the
in the crypto Journey
hi my question is for Julian
um about the fraud detection
um option for
um the
Urgent wallet and my question is does it
um does it apply to mvv type attacks
like bot Suites for example where if a
user has engaged with efficient attempts
and then every transaction after that
goes to a multiplicity of different
wallets
uh
would that feature be able to detect
things on on the mvv level in the pool
and then pull that's honestly a very
good question and something we haven't
really thought about so just to make
sure understand your question you're
saying if we enable this cosigner for
example can this cosigner anticipate
some kind of Mev extraction
I guess the answer is probably yes but
to be honest we haven't researched that
yeah so that's a that's a good question
I I don't see why not because based on
the type of transaction you can probably
assume that some Mev will happen but
yeah that's that's an interesting point
of view and something interesting to
research I don't know if someone else
actually a smarter answer than mine to
that question feel free to shoot really
quick one about MPC wallets so the use
cases that you describe the main ones
with uh multisigs social recovery
can be solved a bit in a bit of a hacky
way with MPC EOS like the one that I
think coinbase wallet is working on
uh is that good or bad and if it's bad
what do we do about it I mean so yeah
like one specific thing that uh eeo the
MPC approach can't solve right is the
key is key changes so like they actually
they can't really solve social recovery
well right and the reason is that even
if you take your key and you split it
into five secret shares and you give
each year to one of your friends the
yeah the problem is that like if your
friends get hacked um you know even five
years later like there's basically no
time limit you have no way to revoke
once enough of them get hacked they'll
be able to take control of your key in
your account right so that's one uh very
very big problem and then another
problem is that
just for my ux perspective that kind of
approach would require the users who
participate in like basically it will
require your recovery Partners to have
custom software and account abstraction
done with smart contracts is like
cleaner because it doesn't require
custom software right like to add a
bunch of recovery Partners you know you
just like put in what their addresses
are and so like it whether they don't
need to like hold some separate thing
and then make sure that some some
separate thing is kept safe and like
accidentally lose it because the only
thing they ever use it for is helping
you recover your accounts and they just
forget this is something that once you
know literally happened to even me when
I yeah was using the HTC Wallet that was
using NPC recovery by the way right
um the like I even you know I almost
lost it because a couple of my recovery
friends just like upgraded their phones
and you know forgot to upgrade I forgot
to carry over the recovery app
um so like those are the two problems
that you know at least uh I think the
smart contract based approach has always
better and then also just like
theoretical cleanness right like ecdsa
is just a fundamentally bad algorithm
the only reason it has any prominence at
all in this world is because of stupid
stuff involving a snore patents um and
you know it was ecdsa was invented to
just get a basically get around the
patents and that patent has expired
years ago and so there's a and ecdsa has
a lot of like bad mathematical quirks to
it that make it much harder than needed
to MPC and uh I mean you know much more
complicated than needed and though like
we really should be yeah upgrading to
Schnur or um or other things anyway and
so you know just from that kind of
theoretical Amino trying to kind of make
the Asia ecosystem cleaner overtime
perspective I think as smart culture
quality approach is better so like for
the solving dealing with people's needs
now um you know it's definitely valuable
in some cases but I do think there's you
know value in and like like there are
serious value ads that a smart contract
based approach him AdSense up yeah and
in order to add that um when you're that
an MPC aims to solve the aims to solve
maybe a recovery or managing the keys
but it doesn't give you things like
adding a policies I mean you can uh it
helps you with the authentication of the
account but nothing else and there are
actually NPC there are some NPC wallets
that use it that run a policy on a
centralized server so you have a server
participating in the MPC and the server
will make sure that you don't do certain
things but this means that the policy
management is done off chain in a
centralized way and I think being able
to enforce a policy on chain is a
powerful thing that NPC cannot achieve
hey real quick question that that's
actually all the time that we have so we
have to sadly that's two seconds just
real quick
just wanted to ask I'm not the one
writing the rules I don't know one more
all right cool we're good we can
appreciate that that's love I'm Russ
from 40 acres now we're trying to create
self-sustaining communities of color
utilizing blockchain and obviously
there's a lot of big brains in the
building right now but for the people
that have no idea what you're talking
about I'm super curious there was a
wallet out and you could aggregate you
could use D5 nft marketplaces I'm
curious is there space for things and
products like this in the ethereum space
and how do we kind of aggregate that
information for people who don't even
know what a smart contract is
course so basically there was a wallet
out right and you could put there was D5
protocols in it there was nft
marketplaces All in One Stop Shop and so
I'm curious is are there other products
or anything like this being built again
to help those who have no idea what
smart contracts are those who just need
this information the most
yeah I think smart contract wallets are
how we get to a point where uh we have
just intuitive ux and so you can just
like uh there's something called like
the grandma test where if you can give
your grandma the thing and she can do it
then it passes the ux test and smart
contract walls are how we get there and
so just like things to make things
intuitive to get rid of like the whole
like signing with a private key and
doing and making wallets behave in the
way that we expect them to just as
humans smart contracts wallets are how
we get there and so I'd say that smart
contracts wallets are kind of how
ethereum kind of fits into every single
corner of the internet and it's because
we find ways to hook ethereum into some
sort of web3 app game nft Marketplace
and it doesn't feel like ethereum it
just feels like the internet and that's
and smart contract wallets are
definitely how we get there I hope that
answered your question cool thanks guys
[Applause]