[Music]
hello hello how is everybody doing today
last day of Devcon we are super excited
to be here talking to you about building
resilient teams navigating the web
through e system and we have three
incredible speakers today um our first
panelist we have Evan McMullen she's a
Visionary in the web3 space with such a
robust background in both blockchain and
Enterprise Tech she's the co-founder of
pado ID where they're focusing on
transforming identif identity
verification across digital and real
world environments and she was
previously the founder of disco. XYZ um
with leadership experience at Brookshire
hathway and consensus Evan has really
been at the Forefront of advancing
decentralized identity and Data
Solutions and fun fact Evan and I met
while we were students at Yale
University and here we are years later
together so um and our next guest we
have uh Rachel and Rachel's been working
in the blockchain space for years as a
Founder best-selling author and Global
public speaker she's really passionate
about
sharing uh sharing knowledge and
building Community she has been very
active with the base and coinbase
ecosystem
at founding onchain media where she runs
a podcast in Twitter spaces and she's
co-founded incentives with per Labs with
Mr migles on base team uh and
additionally she works with the city of
Berkeley uh to promote blockchain use
cases at a m Municipal level and our
final panelist Olivia Smith is the COO
of moons song Labs where she directs
operational strategy and scales a
company's impact in web 3 Innovation she
was formerly the VP of strategy at pure
stake where she played a key role in
launching Moonbeam and she also has a
background in finance having spent four
years in trafi uh tradition or prior to
blockchain and she also holds a joint JD
MBA from Columbia University so welcome
to these panelists um let's why don't we
kick it off with you know let's start
simple to each of you in a sentence what
is resilience
mean I think of resilience both in a in
a very sort of literal technical sense
as well as the human sense the ability
to withstand friction disruption to
maintain integrity and to maintain
process and success despite shifting
conditions around
you um when I think of resilience I
don't know I I was doing a Twitter space
with uh this MMA fighter who was talking
about you know getting knocked down
repeatedly over and over and I feel like
in our space we are really fighting this
good fight for the greater good and
after getting knocked down time and time
again I think resilience is you know the
ability to pick yourself back up and
realize okay we are working towards a
greater good and this is a fight worth
fighting so I think it's just getting up
you know uh and if you get knocked down
just get up and keep trying I feel like
that's that's resilience me I like that
image of just keep getting up um for me
it's like you know it's obviously
persistence but it's this like mental
fortitude I think when I think of it
it's like as simple as being being able
to sustain so you can succeed and so
it's something that's consistent that's
always there that you have to keep
cultivating but is key to
success so looking at these definitions
that you all just provided how do you
instill these sort of core values of
resilience that you just defined within
your teams so the only thing that is
certain about the blockchain industry is
that we can guarantee
uncertainty um I'm sure that all of you
here have experienced various different
swings of Market Cycles introductions of
new political influences social
influences that change the Dynamics in
which we operate every day both from our
you know technical resilience and the
challenges of new Adoption or new
capabilities or even errors that we find
along the way as well as the human
beings coordinating these systems who
need to be able to accommodate
themselves um at pado ID in our practice
we have an incredibly diverse team our
teammates you know represent present
Nations across the world as well as
backgrounds that are incredibly diverse
from more traditional to pretty
degenerate um and it is through that
range of experiences and perspectives
that I think we find resiliency and
strength the opportunity to invite
points points of view that might not
occur to you in fact the invitation to
disagree rigorously and respectfully you
know raising one's voice because you
love your users is never a bad thing on
my team and and so I think that through
open communication deep consideration
for what success looks like and a shared
understanding that the ground under us
will always shift these principles you
know this this way of being uh has been
working so far but of course as I say
with all Technologies and all processes
we will work for as long as this serves
us and we when we find something else we
will do that
instead mic drop um yeah so I feel like
what creates a resilient team in my eyes
is I I don't know I'm a big proponent of
really understanding your why and the
purpose behind what you're doing when
you have a strong enough why you figure
out the how and the teams that I've seen
make the most waves and make the most
progress they're tapped into uh this
greater Mission and greater purpose and
they just do it with such conviction
like Evan here you know just constantly
showing up and realizing okay what we're
doing is so important for the greater
good what we're doing is you know what
I'm doing is align with my purpose every
day and I think that excitement and that
joy to be a part of this uh positive
change globally uh I think is what the
the is behind the energy of
resilience yeah I agree and I think Evan
what you spoke to is this like
psychological safety in a work
environment being able to speak up being
able to have debate I think that's
crucial to a part of a culture I think
it's really comes down to people and
purpose and you talked about that of
like you have to have a greater good
that you're solving for and you have to
give people purpose for the work that
they do day in and day out and then I
think as I think a key part is you've
got to invest in people and people
investment is not just paying them I
think that's really key it's recognition
and appreciation and not just accepting
work but actually talking about all the
work they put into it talking about what
they learn from it and I think you know
to add to the psychological safety that
you mentioned Evan I think there's this
aspect that everything should be a
learning opportunity the long-term
purpose of what you're building for but
then you also want to have like a
personal purpose of I am developing
myself and as a leader you want to
invest in that bringing in outside
speakers investing in them learning
stuff that's not even just like related
to their direct work but cross cutting
across the company I think a lot of
times we get really focused and siloed
on our direct work and we don't realize
that people can learn a ton from whether
it's the marketing department The
Business Development Department there's
just a lot that we can take advantage of
so investing in people I think is the
key to resilience can I add one thing
there okay so another big component that
I was just thinking of and I feel like
Evan has always understood this but it's
also having fun uh I actually I went to
Doge day in Tokyo recently in Japan and
you know uh they're actually honoring
the life of a big uh Community member in
the Doge Community named Julia love and
a quote from her is if it's not fun it's
not sustainable so I feel like you know
we're seeing the rise of all these meme
communities and people are realizing
okay this is fun we can rally around
this and celebrate community so I feel
like fun is a big component too being
connected to a greater purpose and
having fun and Evans Evans always got
that she's got a disco ball on stage
with us right had a fun um so you know I
think that a lot of things like this
with like resiliency there's sort of
these kind of higher level almost like
philosophical questions of how we how we
approach this and discussions about this
but if you were to like measure
resilience and look at metrics as we're
in a very metric driven industry like
what would you say are some things that
you could look at for
that burnout attrition uptime
transactions per second mic drop no but
like for real though you know when we
when we talk about sort of metrics like
it's a it's a challenging thing to try
to apply across the board because every
you know every team is different every
human experience is different but what I
can tell in terms of measuring the
health and resilience of our community
is that the number of chairs in this
room far exceeds the number of chairs in
the room in 2018 in Prague at Devcon
when I first learned about the work of
my now co-founders the Iden 3 protocol
the you know ecosystem around us has
scaled significantly such that there are
a lot of new faces and many that remain
but whether it's through you know the
the difficulty of the work that we do
the you know pressure of the Dynamics
and constantly changing ecosystem it's a
a challenging place for everyone to
build resilience for every team to
persist um and so through the natural
emergent progress of you know of um
ethereum I think it is organic that not
everything will stay the same uh and in
fact um the ability to adapt and change
and to jettison what no longer serves us
I think is part of what makes that
resilience possible uh I know I am
definitely guilty of hanging on to some
ideas for a little too long even when it
was clear that they may no longer be
viable whether that's a signature scheme
or you know particular way like State
channels I thought that was going to
happen turns out we went with layer twos
so you know the ability to receive that
new information and iterate um I think
is also you know important in the ways
that we measure who's here and how it's
working so I I think team by team it's
going to be the metrics are going to be
individual to what the purpose is but I
think kind of a universal metric that we
can look at is how long uh these teams
are last asking how long the individuals
are showing up how long they're staying
in the ring after all of these Market
Cycles going up and down uh how long are
they showing up people like Evan people
like these women on stage today have
been in this space for years grinding
and not stopping and to me that is a key
Benchmark of resilience it's continuing
to show up over the long term seeing the
bigger picture uh you know during the
the bare markets we lose so many people
right and I feel like that's you know
kind of the opposite of resiliency these
women up here see the long-term Vision
have continued to show up over the years
and I think that's a universal metric
that we can look at yeah I agree with
both of those things I think for me
attrition seeing like if you survive a
bare Market obviously those are tests of
resilience but in some ways those are
like you've already lost the battle
right like you build resilience actually
in the bull it's opposite of like
building software in the bear like this
is the time to build resilience because
the bar Market tests resilience um and I
think when you have lots of attrition
you're already kind of losing that um
resilience battle
for me it's you know part of a key part
of developing resilience is developing
with your team your company's core
values and linking Behavior to that so
when we talk about how to measure
resilience for me it's one just the
behavior of your team on a day-to-day
basis are you able in your team meetings
to call out how people's actions are
directly tied to your values I think the
other part of it is ironically I think
you should look at how many failures
you've had in a risk-controlled
environment and what's happened from
those failures because the key part of
resilience as you said is like being
able to get knocked down and get back up
and you don't want to have it be that
like it's when you have a concussion and
you can't get back up right you want it
to be when it's a risk controlled
environment where someone has been given
ownership of something they haven't done
it quite right but they're in an
environment EV to what you said before
that they can learn from it they're not
fired right way and they can become more
resilient one thing that I I want to
note too like just in thinking about the
process of like how One cultivates
resilience as as you were noting in
practice I think the same is true for
you know the acific hardening of our
code and smart contracts as well as the
processes that we have internally on our
teams right the reason that we trust
certain contracts the reason that we
trust certain projects is because of the
volume of capital that they have
supported over time that consistency of
their security um and that is you know
proven first through audits but then
really through volume and consistency
over time and I think the same is true
in our you know internal team practices
and even how we work with one another in
this composable ecosystem that demands
you know modular teams interface
constantly um you know defining the
processes that work getting a gut check
from the other parties involved whether
you know that's a formal audit for code
or whether feedback for your colleagues
and then over time you know repeating
that process adding more value that's
supported by it aify that social code as
it were so you sort of jumped slightly
into my my next question but you know I
think that when we talk about web 3
resilience is mentioned so often and so
you know how does web 3 vary in
resilience from other Industries and
obviously we've touched on some of these
topics but I wanted just to get a little
bit more specific here and see if
there's anything that you think you
missed on that of like what do you think
that you know web 3 can learn from you
know your experiences in the past from
other Industries and and what's
different and would you say that
resilience in web 3 is drastically
different from other
Industries y'all we need some boundaries
up in here um I definitely think the
demands of a 247 Market that is emergent
at every edge with with constant
communication with Global time zones
like this industry is 247 not just the
markets which invites the most
spectacular opportunity for every minute
throughout the day to be um you know an
an act of continued progress and for the
permissionless nature of our ecosystem
to invite everyone on Earth and in space
with an internet connection to
contribute um but what this can look
like uh is very different than for more
formal structures where the relationship
between you and your work the
relationship between you and your
colleagues has been aifi in its own way
by different processes um I think the
Choose Your Own
Adventure uh you know way of being in
spaces such as Devcon and the etherium
ecosystem offers the tyranny of
structurelessness where it is very easy
to forgo your own boundaries in service
of the chain I certainly know that I do
not get enough sleep and I'm not
hydrating enough this week
in you know in service of our work but
um but that type of constant opportunity
for engagement that 247 on ramp um and
opportunity to participate is both a
gift and a curse um and I think that the
way we require resilience um to be
self-guided just like the shape of how
we participate in this ecosystem is
different than these more traditional
Informer structures where um there's a
much more
uh clear separation um in between what
one might call
work yeah U my answer my mic drop Again
by the way um yeah so I I would say you
know to Evan's point is this space is
always on right there's always messages
in telegram Discord uh things happening
around the world because we are a part
of this borderless Global onchain
community and um I think that's a very
beautiful thing I've also seen the other
side of the coin where it's it's very
easy to burn out I mean you should see
some some of our calendars up here like
uh they're pretty crazy because um I I
think that comes from the excitement and
the passion and the purpose behind what
we're doing it makes us want to show up
and and you know put 110% in because we
realize the significance of the work
that we're doing so I think something
that other Industries can learn and what
you know lessons I've learned working in
web 3 and in the onchain space is you
really have to master the art of time
management figuring out where your time
is best Set uh spent and really
mastering that because it's easy to get
sucked into like a ton of rabbit holes
CU our space is always on there's always
exciting things happening um but yeah
I'd say the other side of that the
positive side is that you know this is
like a a global celebration I feel like
so many people are excited about this
industry and you know we get to be at
events like Devcon and you know
conferences all the time so yeah I'd say
I I really love the excitement piece of
it but it's really important to master
your time in the space I agree with both
of those things I think for me and it's
we've talked about it is that web 3 you
have this much bigger mission that
you're that we're on and it we don't
really know what the end will look like
right and so it's there's a so much
untapped potential that we need to
harness and drive people and give people
that purpose but you know I also think
you know as you said like I started my
career off in Investment Banking I
actually probably worked just as much um
it there's no creativity though I would
say probably better Bankers have more
creativity than I did but um I think
this industry you can be creative and
you can try to figure out what the best
way forward forward is and that's really
wonderful and I think that allows for
more resilience because it gives you
more ownership of what you're doing um
and then you know I think there's some
things from my past that I would like to
see more in web 3 I think we can have
more structured cultures that promote
learning and teaching and mentorship you
know it's a very fractional environment
work environment but that doesn't mean
that it's not a core part that every
person contributing to a project part of
their job is to teach and that is a
really powerful thing to move our
industry forward um one other comment I
want to add like what other Industries
can learn from web 3 um one of the
things that initially attracted me was
the the concept of dows right like being
uh being in charge of my my day-to-day
work right having more freedom and
flexibility and ownership of my time I
think that's something that's always
been attractive to me but I do think we
need a blend of like structure but also
Freedom flexibility and sovereignty over
our time because that's one of the
things that initially attracted me to
the space so so you all just t on a lot
of really really great things you know I
I want to jump back to the like this
industry needs boundaries um for a
second here and you know obviously you
guys are all leaders in this space and
we're talking about you know resilience
and how you instill it in teams how do
you approach it you know obviously we
have we have the personal we have the
teams and then we have the larger you
know web three industry what would you
say like as a leader how do you take
your personal lessons and share share
that with your teams and help build in
like a resiliency practice within your
your teams or communities mission team
individual in that
order um you know I I know there are a
lot of different approaches and styles
to leadership I do not want you to bring
your whole self to work I want you I do
not want to build a family in the office
we are a band of Assassins we came here
to slay we've got some we've got some
objectives to achieve and whatever you
want to do on the weekends when you're
done go so forth but I will still be
online so you know to that end I guess
you know what I really mean by that is
having you know a shared purpose shared
ideas shared objectives a shared Way
Forward means that whatever you know you
showing up as an individual looks like
can be part of that that you know range
of of you know individual interest and
expression and capability in service of
your shared Focus as a team in service
of your shared Mission means that anyone
can take a slice that suits them well
that is you know that is focused on
their strengths and their areas of
interest um and I think prioritizing our
work prioritizing our team and then
thinking about ourselves you know as
individuals separately from why why we
come to the table and how we come to the
table together you know I think that can
and should mirror ways that we think
about the ethereum ecosystem as a whole
you know as ethereum we are mission team
individual and I hope that you know we
find Opportunities to practice that in
our own ways as
well well I don't know how to follow I
mean I feel like she really uh covered
everything there I I will say there is a
quote that stuck out to me from someone
that I know if any of you know uh Jesse
Pock the creator of Bas chain uh you
know one of the first things I heard him
say uh I I joined this onchain summer uh
kickoff event and he said put the team
over the individual stay optimistic and
remember put the team over the
individual and that is something that
stuck with me to Evans Point putting the
mission and the team before the
individual is important and and of
course operating in a human Centric way
right Val valuing individuality but
always remembering you are working
towards a greater mission in purpose uh
I think is
essential yeah I think you struck on
something that I think is really
important which is like always be
positive and I think a lot about you
know when thinking about resilience as a
leader it's this consistency and this
positivity and that's not to say that
you don't talk about the negative things
but I think the hard job of a leader is
that you have to frame the negative
things with a positive outlook and to
say okay this is what we're learning
from this this is this is where the
opportunity is because this happened um
I think being calm and collected is a
really good trait for resilience um and
I've heard the analogy used like you
have to save up the good energy from
positive news to use it when there's bad
news because it's way more important to
have that when there's bad news so you
kind of have to act like a dam in a
drought right like you let out water
when there's like a drought and you
there's nothing sustaining your team um
and I think that part of leadership and
building resilience is that it can't
just be you building resilience you need
to coach you need to Mentor people so
that they can be resilient leaders for
their team and part of that again is
like giving them Authority I don't know
Evan like I do agree put the team before
the individual but I think there still
needs to be meaningful interactions and
support network that allows you to be
resilient and I think it's you can find
that support through a mission but
everyone is different and some people
need to be able to share personal things
about their lives at work and and be
able to be known and I don't know if
that's necessarily a bad thing but
obviously team you know is the priority
and the mission of the
company so we've talked a lot about you
know resilience within teams and
individuals um but we also have other
teams that we're observing go through
the same things that we are um you know
I can kick it off to all of you but are
there any teams that you guys have seen
doing things with common denominators of
resilience and what that looks like
outside of your own
experiences shout out to the
l2s I feel like um you know in the in
the scaling road map of ethereum there
has been much uh much Evolution um and
much iteration um first you know side
chains all to l1's l2s rollup Stacks
shared sequencers all of these flavors
all working toward a more perfect union
of block space and applications and
services um so the you know just from a
a technical an team perspective um the
way these longstanding infrastructure
substrates have evolved to accommodate
better developer experience to
accommodate different kinds of business
needs as we have Enterprise chains
entering the chat um I I think that's
definitely you know something to to look
toward and as a sort of a snc for all of
our industry and the way that we
continue to evolve and iterate both you
know in the stack and in our
teams yeah well I I have to start out by
by just shouting out ethereum uh for
just doing doing all this and making it
to where we're at um you know the l2s
too have come a long way uh you know
shout out to the uh base and base team
for traveling around the world and
actually meeting with builders in person
I think that's a really incredible thing
like like Evan was saying right
prioritizing uh the user right and the
individual that's uh within your
ecosystem I think they're really doing
that um and then there's other projects
like you know I I recently went out to
Tokyo to connect with the Doge Community
um the own the Doge team the team that
owns the Doge IP I think they're doing
really amazing things and you know the
the Doge IP has lasted for so long and
kind of kicked off this uh trend of of
all the memes that uh we have known to
love today so shout out to the Doge team
who prior is fun continuing to show up
and doing only good every day the Mr
miggles team I've seen a lot of teams in
the space uh they're actually uh newer
right that came about during onchain
summer who have just you know uh really
done amazing things in in the short time
uh that that they've been in existence
so yeah shout out to all those
teams yeah I would say just generally
the team entrepreneurs and people
working in web 3 whose previous projects
didn't work and who didn't leave web 3
but started another one and stayed in
the industry I think think like the
specific purpose of your company or
project may not be lasting but you
believe in something bigger and I think
that's that's really cool so there's one
specific part of this industry that I
really want to you know call out and and
chat about during this session is so a
lot of times you know we have
communities in this industry and they're
they're Builders they're developers so
we have you know your communities are
it's a community of developers and so
you have your your Dev ra teams that are
within your you know ecosystem teams
reaching out to the builders um you know
what do we see within devell and like
their role within
resiliency so like in traditional
business you know you might hear phrases
like B Tob business to business or B Toc
and in crypto we have this this sort of
interesting phenomena of the B Tod the
businesses to developer where um so many
you know components tools pieces of
infrastructure rely on the um you know
adoption of either independent
developers and teams to drive traction
of of their tools um and so the way that
we speak to and engage these folks is a
little is a little different like I I
don't think we're going to see the KPMG
team at the bar chain Rave um so
understanding you know what it means to
engage your audience in different ways
is a little bit of a newly formed ground
um I think you know culturally we're
still all observing what it is to find
that type of footing um and I think the
the pressure that is put on the front
lines of those you know rep in the code
um is immense to translate you know cap
Tech highly technical capabilities to a
global audience you know devil is sort
of one part sales one part engineering
one part influencer and one part
therapist and a little bit of marketing
in there too oh yeah certainly and so um
the evolving demands of what that looks
like means that there is no longer a job
description for what Vel oper relations
you know is in a singular sense um it's
been very cool to see the way that
different teams have um you know sort of
broken this practice out have uh
invested in you know materials and
experiences those sorts of things um but
at the end of the day these are also
still humans the human part of human
coordination um so there is a yeah I
think there is um an evolving
opportunity for the maturity of what we
call devrell um to be more close
integrated with other parts of the
practice to um be able to provide
feedback I know internally on our team
for example our teammates who are
externally facing um provide structured
feedback to our product process such
that we can hear directly from folks who
we're building with how we want to
change and iterate prioritize new
features and Beyond um and so you know I
to at risk of sounding like a broken
record up here the you know the core I
think of of what you're asking about
again is communication and understanding
of the shared Mission the way that that
serves the team and then how the
individual fits
in sure um yeah I think you're totally
right like Devil basically has to wear
every hat they have to be product
marketing BD slightly engineering like
you name it operations um I have immense
amount of respect for anyone in devell
and actually in some ways to the point
of like reduce as an industry is a whole
in web 3 we need to reduce developer
friction and so we should all be wearing
some sort of devel hat or think of that
when we're doing our job um I think the
other thing yes they're on the for
they're on the for forine Forefront like
working really hard having to interact
with customers but the other aspect I
think that's hard with devr is that they
get kind of like an onslaught of issues
that they have to deal with but they're
not necessarily empowered within their
own companies to change to make change
right so like the aspect of product the
aspect of engineering or on the
marketing side they just have to relay
that and deal with the kind of um
complaints that are that they're getting
and so I think there's other ways that
we can think about how do we Empower
devr to be more cross cutting across an
organization so they actually can take
action to find solutions to the things
that customers are bringing rather than
just being kind of you know the
messengers I think that's really
interesting um you know I think we have
just in this industry there's so many
different pockets that are all working
together again towards this greater
Vision um and you know Rachel I kind of
want to have you touch a little bit more
on communities and what you think
communities can be doing for resilience
how they're interacting with all these
different facets and like what you've
seen in your experience there uh yes
something I think is really important is
having some level of discourse with the
community right so if you're a project I
think something that's vital that we
that we all crave is to be a part of the
narrative to be a part of the discourse
and the discussion right doing Twitter
spaces I mean I I've done hundreds of
space I've done some with uh with Evan
before and I think you know building
spaces where you can foster that
Community Connection right so that
you're not just working in a silo but
you hear from your community you hear
what they want and you actually know
them they're your friends they're people
that you show up with every day and
speak to I think that is so essential
for building Community uh building those
spaces where you can hear and have that
feedback loop um yeah I think that's
essential also please use your own
products like I I don't I I know that
this is almost like kind of crazy for me
to say out loud but it is challenging to
empathize with the members of your
community if you have not looked at the
screens they look at if you do not click
the buttons they click if you do not
force yourself to eat the friction they
have for breakfast every morning um and
so I think also one of the greatest ways
to show love and empathy to those
individuals is to join them on the Walk
of their user Journeys and to make that
a part of your everyday practice whether
that's you know on the product side
internally to your team whether that's
on you know the support side and the way
that you ask and answer questions or
whether that's you know you hanging out
with your docs trying to start from
scratch taking them literally um so you
know there all of these conversations
all of these you know communication
patterns and showing up for each other
is really great but if we are not
working from a shared set of information
it becomes really tough to do absolutely
I also love how I'm like sitting here
having a next question for Evan and
she's like starting to teed up perfectly
for me it's almost like we've known each
other for decades
um so I want to also talk about
resiliency in building
products and that was exactly for you
when you sort of teed up when you
started talking about products how do
you experience in your experience like
what are the lessons that you've learned
in res your resilience in building
products in in different
products the extent to which you think
other people are excited about the
intricate nature of your Tech stack is
vastly
overrated um I think especially for
those of us who kind of came up in in
protocols um there is a culture that we
live in to celebrate you know technical
complexity and detail um and you know
some might even say that that's
bordering on nerd sniping um so you know
I I think about resilience in technical
products as a function of the operations
of the team but also the processes that
you know these sort of aify processes we
talked about earlier um specifically
very simple things you know the ability
to communicate regularly with those who
are using your product in indeed you
know putting yourself in their shoes as
we discussed having a meaningful ongoing
communication with regards to those
changes or updates that might improve um
being prepared to receive new data for
the model and iterate like a good Agent
um but seriously though you know
obviously there are a lot of new
technologies new capabilities that are
introduced frequently and so um the
amount of self-awareness that teams
technical teams in this ecosystem need
to have is like off the charts compared
to centralized Alternatives when you
build a modular stack you're never going
to know every character of code right of
all of the other elements on which you
rely unless you um unless you built the
hardware yourself and mind your own
minerals you're also trusting someone in
that you know in that stack as well um
this means that we need to trust the
people behind these other products this
means that we need open channels of
communication um whether it's you know
the way that our team at pado ID engages
with our home as a base or solves
problems with our colleagues at ens or
defines collaborative ways forward with
our teammates over at consensus the way
that we build resilient products in a
modular ecosystem is that we talk to
each other frequently often rigorously
honestly um I think also the economic
incentives in this space can muddy that
process can make it weird there's a lot
of political tension in ethereum you
know I know that that's not something we
like to say out loud but there is and so
the less we play into childish games of
inclusion exclusion omission of
information and bullying behind the
scenes in the signal chats and the more
we put sunlight on this as a
disinfectant and speak honestly with one
another in the forums I think that will
be reflected in our text tax as
well exactly well I think we're
definitely not done with the panel but
that definitely deserved some snaps at
least um you know I think one of the you
know when I'm looking at these panelists
up here and the different backgrounds
that you all come from and the sort of
areas that you represent in the industry
it's really intering interesting to have
these varying perspectives and you know
I think the the next area that I want to
sort of move to and touch upon is um
obviously this industry is mostly remote
there are some companies that are you
know having or protocols that have
in-person things but when we have
everybody that's remote one we obviously
we come together for conferences like we
have here we I think it's over like
12,000 attendees and over 950 side
events in addition to the main
conference there is this need for for
human interaction and I think that those
moments also give us resiliency um as an
ecosystem together but in in all of your
experiences from the you know the
different sides of the industry that you
come from how do you Foster you know
resiliency Within your teams
specifically around this remote work or
or being isolated or only getting to see
people you know a couple times a year um
running around in the chaos of
conferences yeah I could take that well
obviously the conferences are a big
piece you know having those
opportunities to come together and
connect and do events um also locally I
realized there's a lot you can do in
your local community so I actually I
moved to Berkeley and realized okay
there's a lot of people in the Bay Area
that want to connect that want to learn
um you know as far as my I I guess
people in the community that I work with
I kind of go out of my way to to find
them to host events together uh even
virtual events that's another way you
know you can connect with people around
the world uh you know I started a
telegram group called uh let's touch
base shout out to our let's touch base
friends um and yeah basically every day
you know it's a place where we can go
and we have this camaraderie we you know
talk about you know not not only working
crypto but like our personal goals too
and you know uh really just have this
place where we Foster connections and
friendships um so I think really taking
advantage of those virtual spaces is
essential uh especially if you're a team
working uh globally right uh having your
chats having your uh your uh Twitter
spaces as well and also I've become a
big proponent of creating video content
as well um you know showing my face
showing up on video talking and putting
myself out there um and and connecting
with the community virtually is
something I've started doing a lot more
of yeah I think it is a challenge you
know I think there's a lot of positives
of remote working I think for us it's
really that we're able to recruit an
incredibly diverse talent pool that we
wouldn't be a ble to recruit if we were
if we were tied to recruiting only in
like a physical location for a physical
office but I think there's a lot that
comes from just like spontaneous
collaboration when you're in an office
together and that's what we really need
to strive to achieve when we're in this
remote working environment and I think
the first thing is to talk about it like
to be honest about that with your team
of like there are downsides let's tackle
them and let's invest in opportunities
for you to tackle them whether that's
you know cross compan um you know Zoom
like online Meetings online events also
spending money to have imperson meetups
you know our company we do a retreat
twice a year um and we're you know I
think it's also kind of changing your
incentive scheme so that you look at how
much are people contributing to dealing
with this remote working and and finding
this cross collaboration so you know in
our company it's you know companywide
trivia on Tuesday about people and fun
facts about them and then there's
rewards at the end of a certain amount
of time about like who's winning trivia
I think there's they're corny but I do
think that they matter that people need
to be you know see that leadership cares
about this and is trying to tackle
it I would say like so you know we are
sitting here in this room a function of
extraordinary privilege not everyone and
every team has the opportunity to hop on
a flight and join the traveling
intellectual circus at its next stop and
so it is outlandish that we would assume
the opportunity to be in these extremely
fortunate spaces though it is incredible
spectacular that we are here together um
and I think that you know if you have
the the privilege and opportunity to you
know to come to the Mountaintop and to
visit Devcon of course that is the ideal
but you know to your point remote
experiences are also incredibly
compelling um so you know the the
privilege that we have to leverage the
content created at conferences like
Devon Devcon to share it among our teams
to create a common vocabulary of what
we've learned and how we learned about
it I think is you know one thing that's
always been you know very important to
to me in my practice um one thing that
we've started doing at pado ID is also
every other Thursday we do just an hour
of like straight headlines and updates
feelings check-in on the week's news on
chain especially as it pertains to our
work um and that can of course include
very focused and you know disciplined
technical approaches to you know papers
and things that that have been released
of late but also can just be a fun and
joyful time to show one another daps
that we like or new interfaces that are
cool or ask for help because we've
somehow you know wound ourselves up into
some like weird experimental shitcoin we
don't know how to get out of um but you
know we can recreate those moments of
curiosity and learning and openness um
and I think doing so you know by example
asking for help showing something that
you've learned inviting other people to
do so um is a simple way to start I
think those are all great so I have we
have a couple minutes before we're going
to open it up to questions and I sort of
wanted to end this this panel with you
know we've talked about a lot of topics
here a lot of different you know parts
of the industry are there any specific
tools that you guys have used either
personally or for your teams or like
best tips or tricks that if you had a
you know a minute sound bite that you
wanted to go off on that we we didn't
touch on yet I wanted to kind of give
you guys the opportunity to to talk on
any of that so I was thinking about it
last night when I was at to dinner
probably 50 people I was looking around
the room all men of course and thinking
about um you know what it means to to
welcome people who don't look like you
into a space where they are not
representing the majority what does it
mean to invite resiliency when the
diversity of the folks at the table is
pretty imbalanced um now I you know feel
incredibly fortunate in that um you know
I was first introduced to bitcoin like
2010 2011 by a young woman so I never
got the m memo this wasn't for me um you
know just girl stuff crypto as you can
see here up on stage um so we feel you
know confident in in this way forward
but a really cool tool that I want to
give a shout out to is called shifi um
it's a curriculum created by a close
friend former colleague ma Maggie love
um that is used to introduce fundamental
concepts of Defi and crypto to all
audiences um today shifi is utilized by
teams like Fidelity teams like Ava as um
an introductory set of content for those
who are new to crypto um leveraging uh
you know examples that help both the
most you know technical among us as well
as those who may not be as familiar with
these topics um and so I guess the sort
of tip of the spear there is you know
tools that are well suited to the unique
experiences of your teammates exist
discoverability is tough on chain and in
the game so um also just remember one
tool you always have are your DMs on
Twitter Min are open ask for
help and by the way she serious I have
never met anybody that will answer more
questions and be there and show up for
people so take her up on
that yeah um well I think to what Evan
was saying I think prioritizing
inclusivity is so important in our space
uh you know tools like shifi and and you
know even boy club right prioritizing
the fun aspects having the parties where
we can all gather and you know connect
with other women in the space I think
that's invaluable um and for me you know
founding onchain media um doing onchain
media Collective uh what I've really uh
prioritized is looking for places where
I can actually mint my stuff on chain so
I'm a big proponent of Zora of Dracula
if anyone's familiar and I think that's
a really good feeling to not just like
put my Creations out there uh only
solely on YouTube or Twitter X um but
actually having that onchain element
right so uh you know we're perpetuating
the ethos of bringing the world on chain
so uh for me that feels really good and
yeah we cannot um underestimate the
importance of Education in the space too
the education Focus projects are
essential I think shifi is just knocked
out of the park uh with their whole
curriculum so uh yeah education focused
projects uh uh creating onchain media
for me has has been something I really
loved and building more inclusive spaces
also RA are you minting with pods pods.
media no but I I want to connect with
them fantastic Lucas shout out we love
you in your we love you
Lucas um I would add what's been most
helpful for me is having a great
co-founder who's kind of the opposite of
me and thinks about things in a
different way and compliments me and and
we have very different skill sets so I
think surrounding yourself with people
that complement you I think is really
important because it's not you can't do
it alone and you need a team around you
that helps you in your weaknesses and
bolsters you in your strengths really
quick rigor is a love language do not
surround yourself all day with people
who only gas you up and tell you how
great you are if someone cares deeply
enough about your work to offer a
disagreement a critique or piece of
feedback that is a gift you say thank
you thank you yes and I think I can't
quite see the clock here but I think 20
seconds great so we I think we just
finished off on the the official time
for the panel and we're going to open it
up to some questions now um I think some
of these have been a little bit touched
on but I this is one so the first
question um which I think you all can
see up there is you know we touched on
how do you build community in a a remote
team which I know Olivia you touched on
that um but we didn't really touch on
time zones and differences with time
zones so if you guys have any additional
answers on you know building Community
with with time zones and remote stuff
that you would like to add so let's open
it up to that for the first
question you have so the the team that
you know we have the Good Fortune of
working with represents a global array
of individuals and therefore a broad
range of time zones um you know as with
all composable Stacks you have to choose
the attributes that you prefer and do
you need to accommodate for the
challenges that they may introduce
there are trade-offs in all things as in
our team composition and that means if
you want to have Global voices at the
table you're going to have to get on
Zoom at 2 o'clock in the morning and you
are going to have to accommodate just as
much as your colleagues will have to
accommodate you I think you know the the
sort of Waypoint here um that you know
that's really important to remember are
what are those moments of human
connection even if they are happening at
moments that are inconvenient to your
calendar those things things can occur
async those things can occur in you know
moments of sharing and learning and so
devoting time and energy to them is the
only way you know there's no perfect
answer but practice makes progress yeah
and something I mentioned earlier too is
time management so time management and
mastering your calendar are like
essential skill sets in this space you
know especially if you're working with a
global team making sure you're
scheduling uh communicating with your
team and mastering time management is
absolutely like a needed thing if you're
working on a global
team I think can work with a global team
but some time zones just don't work like
I think sustainably like I couldn't get
on a zoom every day at 2:30 in the
morning I think you have to be realistic
I think there's certain amount of hours
and you have to it's you know you have
it's individual you have to decide
what's right for you but I think that
you do have to design a team with that
in mind I also think you have to look at
who works with whom and so like people
need a buddy who they work with so you
might have people that that are really
far away but you have two of them they
collaborate together so you just have to
be mindful of it who are the individuals
what's their role and what you know what
will drive them
forward all right next question what's
the best way to encourage your team to
stay current and educated on the
state-ofthe-art
all right show of hands how many of you
have listened to a crypto podcast in the
last month last year all right so it
seems like we've got pretty pretty good
consensus there I personally am a huge
fan of The Chopping Block if I were to
if I were to pick one um but there are
so many well curated Publications um
that keep us up on the tea uh if you're
going to subscribe to a newsletter I
think milk road is a really outstanding
one and if you want some Savage memes
and excellent crypto content definitely
uh smash subscribe to the boys club
newsletter yes um something I would also
say is depending on what your purpose
and your mission is I'd say look for
people that are doing the things that
you want to do people that could be kind
of like uh leaders or examples of
accomplishing the things you want to do
follow them I don't know I think Twitter
is is for me a place where I you know
follow warp cast as well where I follow
individuals that are just uh you know
doing things that I I want to Aspire to
do I think that's a powerful Tool
YouTube is a powerful tool podcasts um I
think just immersing yourself in your
specific KNE if you have one um and
following those individuals that are
talking about it and you know uh
listening to the experts but also be
careful if all they're doing is talking
that talk are they an influencer being
paid by a protocol to do it so do your
own research remember the builders have
different incentives than uh those that
are you know Distributing content on
Twitter um so as a leader how to
encourage people to do it you have to do
it yourself or have someone on the
leadership team doing it and I think
they have to talk about that they're
doing it so one in team meetings talk
about podcasts that you've listened to
and why you found them really
interesting J second if that's not if
you don't have that space make the space
so put a meeting on a calendar that's
optional that the whole team can come
and join that meeting invite and talk
about interesting things they've learned
that week and we I'm going to add on
that because I'm at the same company as
Olivia at moonsong Labs we have a weekly
uh devs uh news and and sharing for for
learnings and news and anybody's able to
attend so it's like a non-developer I
will go sometimes too and so if you have
multiple people who are looking at maybe
I'm looking at more Market
other people are looking at more
technical stuff other people are looking
at regulation you can kind of work
together to find the areas of interest
that people are researching so I was
sorry to add to that guys um hold on my
questions just went down um all right
love Olivia's comment about learning
from failures how do you make time from
retro learnings when there's so much
pressure to move on to the next
thing often early and often feedback is
never an untimely gift um one of the
things just I do personally in one-on
ones with their teams especially um you
know when we're more talking about kind
of product and design those sort of
tangible deliverables um three quick
questions what's going well what's not
going well how can I help and having
that conversation on a regular basis I
think you know helps to uncover some of
these challenges or points of friction
um additionally Retros are really
wonderful obviously everyone has
different ceremonies and processes you
know our vers of agile is going to look
different than B's version of agile um
but holding time for formal structures
um where people are welcome to share
what is not going well or did not go
well um as an opportunity to do better
not a punitive measure sounds really
obvious sometimes challenging in
practice especially when we're stressed
or especially when we expected things to
go a certain way and didn't um and so
the you know the thing to remember
always I you know I I know this may not
be new to you guys um but it is never
you against your teammate it is always
you and your teammate against the
problem yeah and I I think something
that you were saying earlier is that
it's actually healthy to talk about the
negative to talk about the problems and
how you can overcome them right so I
think taking that time like to what Evan
was saying to actually analyze what's
working what's not working how can we
help doing that as a team is very
important but also doing that as an
individual is extremely important right
holding yourself accountable because you
know no one really has the time to uh
hold your hand every everything right
like you're the one at the end of the
day who has to look in the mirror and
say okay what is working for me where am
I seeing the best results where is my
time best spent and what things aren't
exactly working and what can I take off
my plate so I think individual account
accountability is very important as well
yeah I feel like I'm going to be like
Nike here like you just have to do it
like just you just have to like find the
time I think that a lot of times in
blockchain like it there it's crisises
are very time sensitive so obviously not
in the middle of a security issue do you
say like let's where where did we fail
here but I think that you know two weeks
down you have to go back and look at
this like where what practic is what
needs to change to make sure this didn't
happen all right so in the spirit of
putting mission team first what do you
do when the te the needs of the team's
team evolves but team members work isn't
evolving to meet the shifting
needs yeah I can I can jump in on that
one like obviously every situation is
different I think a key thing is
communication so the team member has
known that their that their work needs
to evolve it's not meting expectations
you need to have that those
conversations even when they're
difficult but I also would say that you
know if someone your team is only as
strong as the weakest person so if
someone isn't stepping up if someone
isn't performing at the level of
Excellence that you need that is a
detriment to your team and you do need
to move quickly to fix that yeah teams
are commitments that we make to each
other the second those commitments are
not in a position where they can be
honored in the same way it warrants a
conversation and that goes both ways
whether for individuals and also you
know the the leaders who support them
all right I think we probably we're
going to try to get through both of
these but we're definitely going to hit
this first one what personality traits
do you look at when recruiting new
talent that gives you hints about
resilience I'll I'll comment there real
quick I would say passion and excitement
when I see that light and that spark in
someone like they are so lit up about
what they're doing I'm like okay they
they have that energy they have that
level of passion and dedication to
really show up and be hungry I look for
hunger in people um people people that
want to show up and and do the work and
are excited about it because I think you
know they'll they'll have that energy
and that momentum to get back up if we
get knocked down so I think passion
spark and energy is what I look for yeah
I love that they also need to be able to
talk about their failures if you ask
them what their weaknesses are or what
they've learned from failures and they
kind of go quiet it's not a good
sign um I definitely think that uh you
know folks need to um be able to do what
they think makes sense so and you know
individual sense of autonomy and comfort
there um I also think that uh I I'm big
on the yes and people um you know if we
have a conversation we identify a task
to be done I do not want to just execute
on the task I want us to explore the
idea so the execution of the task is the
start not the end of how we act on it
and I can't see the clock but I think
we're very close to time 28 28 seconds
all right I'm going to take the the last
28 seconds we have to say thank you so
much to everybody for being here for
your great questions uh to our amazing
panelists please you know we're going to
stick around afterwards if you have
questions you want to talk to us we're
here again follow everybody on Twitter
look at what they're doing um DM them
they will answer you you have proven
Authority Rachel onchain and _ Smith um
and thank you again you guys have been a
really really great audience these
questions were really insightful and
happy last day of Devcon everyone all
right thank
[Applause]
every thank you