[Applause]
we're coming we did not expect this
interest
we are simply facilitators and will not
be speaking very much that not all about
you guys and collaborating we are trying
to solve the coordination problem by
having this workshop
[Music]
hey cool should we get started yeah okay
so as Eva said we're just going to talk
for a brief second to give you and they
trim - why you put on this workshop why
we're giving you guys the space to talk
a little bit on our thoughts and then
probably this session is gonna go so if
you don't know where you are this is a
workshop on doubts its penalty on down
evolving cute human organization so
we're gonna be talking all things Dallas
and everything wonderful and horrible
about this so as I said we're just gonna
run really quickly
fifteen minutes the format of the
session is a workshop so we're gonna
have you guys square feelings with each
other it's something that you can come
in and out of but it would be great for
you as a saleable session it's an hour
and a half so it's not too long we
promise that it will probably be okay
okay so let's just start off with why
we're holding this session so even I
think that doubts can be more than multi
six and that's probably I mean I hope
not a hot take but dolls are
representing this really cool thing that
we're all talking about I mean that's
why are all our room here today this is
something that is really interesting but
also like really think so the what
inspired this workshop so I guess I
wanted to go through why you can't ask
any more than multi six and from our
observation in the space what we really
think is happening and pitch that's you
guys see what you think so we leave with
a demonic approach to human coordination
is being challenged as those underserved
and disempowered by the current system
serves for more open adaptable and
representative solutions
so with the emergence of Taos this weird
things that we're all building
decentralized governance token
engineering we now have this new design
space to reengineer
incentives and my physicals and that's
really cool but the word down kind of
sucks
I mean breathing self it kind of means
all of these different things that don't
really line up
and so it causes a lot of confusion it
causes a lot of inability to work with
each other and it causes this whole
space to be completely not accessible to
anybody who can actually use this
technology to solve their problems these
people who are being distant is powered
and underserved by our traditional power
structures right so um this is just a
little bit of you know the Dalits that
are this base we have everything from
grant outs to people solving climate
change with cows to people helping
political candidates meaning themselves
with to the office and so there's a lot
of different things happening and it's
kind of a lot to handle
um but one resounding thing that is kind
of connecting all of these is that
they're kind of envisioning this new way
of organization right I'm one that wants
sustainability over profits regeneration
is this scarcity and more cooperative
distributed ways of organizing working
over a hierarchical right and
centralized ways working and this is
really cool this is something of
bad I'm like serious I like this this is
what a lot of people have been working
towards for a very long time so this
isn't new to just the people in this
room this is very new to us but it's not
new to everybody outside this group
that's what I was meant to say so this
is a really cool vision right this is
very counter hegemonic approach to
organization that could serve and
empower the people who are being
disempowered and underserved right now
so even I wanted to get this space to
start talking how we can evolve beyond
Davos beyond this weird little thing
that we all really like talking about
and how do we start getting towards that
vision
of sustainable regenerative and
cooperative organizations right and so
we believe that there's three things
that we need to make that happen
one is collaboration this is something
that cannot be done alone that's quite
logins the second is accessibility some
things cannot just be accessible to the
people who can come out to Osaka Japan
or Def Con this should be something that
anybody can access and Bill Bissett
books and also common ground we kind of
have to get on the same page about what
we're building and what's really cool is
that most of the workshops on jaws have
been around the same concept of how are
we getting weirder than the same
language within the same frameworks and
that's super super important for our
evolutionary process
so yeah that's the basis for this
workshop either sketching it and tell
you how we're trying to provide the
space to start approaching that's
counter hegemonic vision and we can
governor thank you so one of the biggest
criticisms I have with this area is that
we talked about these buzzwords like Tao
without thinking about why you know we
might just boost our cloud or ICO but we
haven't really thought about how to
apply it into like hadiza outside of
this room into web to some people who
don't know the word out and the people
who will never care about the work down
and so the best way we thought to do
this was to collaborate and how people
share their learnings we have several
dowels represented here or people
working on them and aside from Twitter
there's not a lot of collaboration and
so this in itself was trying to solve a
coordination problem by allowing for
their collaboration and talking more
about how do we make it more accessible
and what should we be thinking about in
terms of common ground as a tool set so
you know Dow itself is not a thing but
you know things like coops and say these
groups have existed for a while on so
how did aus play into a larger ecosystem
of organ
types outside of justice atheria
buzzword and so we have a few prompts
here and I'll go through them exactly
what we think you guys should be talking
about our goal would be if you guys
could separate into six groups and so we
have on the walls each of these prongs
and if there are people who don't want
to work on the prompts of sign we also
recognize this room is massive right now
so if it makes more sense to do it all
together
we can do that although that might be
harder and we probably won't get through
all of them right I can start going
through them
[Music]
so here the prompts are on white boy so
firstly white house why are we here in
the first place why do we think these
are different organization types then
like I mentioned coops or savings groups
or credit unions and if they're not
different than how can we start
collaborating more with the history that
has existed with you know
experimentation globally and different
kinds of developing and developed
nations today are not to Dowe so a lot
of people like to now include the word
Zhou and everything I would say that's
not always the best use case and so you
want to pin down what is it not right to
use it down and really think about why
are we saying the worked out was it
simply for cloud or does it actually
provide a tool set for us that can
improve the way that we organize table
tool kids so aside from the technical
infrastructure what other components are
necessary for us to achieve this so you
know companies like open larger like
the legal structure what other business
structure should we have are we you know
using the same social tools like discord
etcetera and if so that's awesome so
maybe we should be more people pointed
on how we actually need those you know
there's like a lot of controversy on
leadership or project management was in
a down and you still need those web to
tools to achieve the organization that
we want within it them
so governing Taos how are they different
from the existing structures you know do
we need identity solutions
what other components do we need to make
me successful outside of the civil
attack problem what other problems exist
within as we have to consult them
experimentation so as I mentioned
there's a lot of people here who are
either making towns are part of Taos it
would be great for everyone to share
their learnings and so something you
learned in Moloch is like a lot of
people are participating in a lot of
different towns but without a
fundamental but basic Shelley point to
communicate that we actually aren't
sharing a lot of information sound of
flavors so I guess piggybacking a little
on the taxonomy town workshop earlier
today what are the components of
different kinds of doubts
what are they different kinds of jobs
what are the features that does should
have to be successful and maybe there's
people who care who are part of that
workshop that that'd be great to have
you guys participate in that but
defining more some of the lines between
two and down types might make it easier
for us to identify what is it Dow
this vague turn well so those prompts
were created by even I would also pushed
out to the general community and a bunch
of Twitter shitposting that we've been
doing and so we've actually built out
those prompts with a lot more like
guiding questions that can be used to
leave the group some and you'll be able
to find those on the Hackett DPH and the
excel sheet but so we don't just want
you guys to just jump in and like have
discussions we want this to be something
that is actionable and so we can pull
out these insights and actually apply
them back to the community so what do we
want from you right so first we want you
guys to capture and share the key
insights from your discussion groups
through the collaborative note sharing
so and then actually share it work
together obviously and play nicely and
engage with each other and then we want
you guys to present those insights to
each other so we want this to be a quick
breakout session where you know people
dive into each of these prompts and then
come back together and share these
insights so that means that we're gonna
have to have one group leader over each
group and one person who's taking notes
and those are the two people so I can't
wait to see all those hands volunteer
for the groups that's gonna be really
great and then I guess the guiding
framework for like what we want out of
this session because it's so hard to
dive into all these big topics and how
to structure conversation is more of a
proposal for frameworks deliverables and
continuing work that can come out of
this workshop that can be worked on with
each other with different groups and
again push back to the community
so evolving together this work only
begins here this is not something that
they believe will stop but it Isis this
room our goal is just to create space
for people to come together and have
these discussions and also we just want
you guys to take inspiration and use
this as a launch base for more
collaborative discussions around outs as
Eva said we have tons of people who are
representing the different you no doubt
groups now filters now is in general
here in this room so take this time to
you know kind of break down this project
silos and have conversations that in
real life not just or Twitter which is
really important so to talk about
logistics and then I'll take a couple
questions and just make sure that we're
all on the same page we're actually
going to be doing our note sharing if
anybody didn't know we have this like
happen D for Def Con this is a QR code
to get it or you can just find it
through the DEF CON map and we've
actually set up the document we followed
the different group categories this is
the link when we didn't think that we
would have slides and so this is where
we're going to be taking your notes and
share insights and this will be
accessible by everybody and again
whoever is volunteering to take notes do
this in the hack indeed that would be
great so okay so to go back to the
original question we have a really big
group of people here um so I wanted to
do a quick check on if people would
rather these small working groups where
these little corner
or a larger group discussion that even I
facilitate and and work through each of
the props so Google wines working groups
raise your hands
yeah really like okay okay now who wants
a larger discussion
that city self is the case for working
groups
okay so or so or so I mean if if to a
group forms and wants to go somewhere
else had you then what time we come back
I mean that there's more space in this
room for working you don't have to work
physically here because this is all I'm
half empty will see all of it and our
goal is to publish all of this as a
collaborative effort on some medium of
choice with all of your notes and also
the frameworks or Dalek itself you know
a decentralized organization is not new
we think it's new because we have this
new fun thing called the smart contract
that allows decentralized coordination
we want to better understand what are
the differences and similarities between
things like co-ops savings groups credit
unions etc that are very parallel to
grant outs or arrogant Dowsett cetera
and how you know what are the tools that
we need now to make those easier given
that we have this new technology stuff
that we using all these prompts are on
this excel sheet that you can also
access through the MD document so we
wanted more information on the Proms
so I think that we're gonna do yeah
there's stickers on the wall for the
groups by your prompt but if you don't
want to be in this room as it is quite
packed as our moderator said you can
leave and then come back I think coming
back at 4:30 what makes sense we wanted
half an hour at the end for discussion
and presentation yeah so let's everybody
take the time now coordinate like the
amazing distributed people that you are
inspire self into one of these X prompts
and if you have another prompting you
have a group around you you want to talk
about something else
I mention all the information is on
there
as many attendees so beautiful
Oh
I'm gonna get was
on this mattress
today's
he still drives me stragglers in the
back we zoom in listening which maybe
twice I hope so okay cool
hi guys guys that whispered what I heard
from those discussions and everything
sounded really really fun great so I'm
really excited to hear from all of you
guys the game plan now is I want each
group to nominate one person to come up
and share the general key highlights
proposals moving forward whatever they
think is relevant that they want to
share with the other groups without any
one person and that person is
mispronounced right I think we have
everything you're now so I'm going to
repeat those instructions in one more
time
so one lovely person from each group is
going to come up and spend however long
maybe you've max five minutes sharing
the insights thoughts general discussion
points that they think is really
important for every other group to hear
so I want every group to nominate one
person that person is going to come up
here with microphone
I have the full attention of the room so
we're gonna do that for each group I
think we ended up already having five
groups so again this will be probably 30
25 minutes we'd love for everybody to
stay to hear about all the insights and
then that's it okay great
any questions no okay so who wants to
start first or should we start one
through six in verse 6
all right who's coming up announce
yourself are you part of it James's
house was about the flavors of Dallas we
basically tried to go through and think
of all the characteristics um you know
that could be on all switches or could
be scales or wrote about philosophies
and so these different points that make
up the flight to death the first one was
the permission list has solve it by is
the doesn't obviously really open and
commissioned or is it you know for
managing funds across MIT because of
people and the Commission on this event
the single month is is a full profit
slash full of sustainability slash
another goal and just doing grunts right
so obviously as a given now said the
next one was around the number of Mimas
so how many people you know again
premise late as small as a lodge is it
me to scout a million people or do they
need to be bought the next one that was
pretty cave was the fund allocation so
is it you know it's the point of it just
employ capital in different ways or is
it a tag um and you know what color to
paint my mom's house the next one was as
the token or not token right so it
definitely I cannot be Indian right down
but you know as it does it have a token
inside of it is that the point to it or
is they not at all when it's a doesn't
require the other Oh was it focused on
some of like people in urban access and
training of almost or does it have some
like hot coated in it what are the what
the point of it is right so that you
you just say like this Porsche develop
of a time you know that some beautiful
'ti of it that was another one of the
flavors and then in one of the things we
spoke through was going through her dad
set calling a paragon Penn Valley and
into the mall at folks and what will
those flavors I don't want to do
everyone else's I considered I just
those are we on the Hank update on that
so the coals for those who have six
different paces the possible and then
also the different or add I think Nick's
tips for the different the flavors of
the doubt I mean I think we're going to
give them up on hacking day maybe sort
of expanding out these flavors I think I
mean no one with sauce equation now but
I'm pretty sure these other flavors and
other attributes that make up it down so
contributing to dip I think would be
really useful in sort of building out
this list and also putting back the
community right because I think there's
a lot of community members that on in
this room on that actually care a lot
about Dallas and sort of understanding
cap at least the people are in the room
of thinking about these ideas and
thinking about the different flavors and
entrance to think up a now is really
important so what encouraged you to go
to the Hackett Isabel and contribute to
the discussion and build out these
flavors that's not a question but a
comment because I felt like a crazy idea
you could build down around the state
around crazy things thanks for example
what presents or anything else that is
important for the community so for
example in heaven as men say things
related to as think as many times you
have to this conferences related maybe
that's not the best measure you can come
up with better manners
so that doesn't have to be like a
thought you don't have to be ever see
who's coming up announce ourselves
speaking for that experimentation team
we spoke on there were like four themes
major topics there was what have you
learned from past experiments riding
past aggregators in the group we talked
about what we should be carrying
cautious of the future endeavors and
then also what we wanted to do future
endeavors and then I've got like a
little assorted category so for past
experiments that were in our group we
had a great fit of a tape wine with
their least recent CLR model and you
know so it's based on a quadratic
and may have some questions of open
questions about identity verification
and things like that but the last round
was very successful
in particular 2200 contributions were
made and they noted that it seemed that
a UX improvement that calls people
visualize how their vote was really
affecting it it gave this my kind of
social media that windfall juicy has
another participation she was really
really care about there was some
conversation but this thing called lived
out but I hadn't heard about that it was
a plasma scaling that that something
like had some autonomous reputation
enforcement I would penalize people
through those things as simple as being
sick for a week and so there was kind of
sentiment of like sometimes it's how you
could encode things don't reflect the
community sentiment that did seem to be
a group sentiment that if the group had
agreed to slash the reputation this
wouldn't seem so bad but the fact that
somebody just didn't vote for a week
Felton's you mean there was there was a
there's some other doubt alluded to it
had some like private HR vish issue that
is now public though everybody sees it
somebody's gonna get fired so there's a
question about how many of these
principle more human things should be on
the chain of general there's a little
bit of conversation with the death PS
experiment from an antitype token status
under curating adapts it was
deliberately designed to avoid voting
because voter participation is usually
kind of come back to later is like
participation part then we're talking
about what you should be cautious of and
building dows
actually we have one major threat they
kind of dominated here there was like a
question of it was like politics versus
autonomy
and it kind of ties back into like just
the theme of all time you know they were
defining dad like at the time autonomous
is a letter in the word and how
important is that into it you know first
I got you know testimony from mother
what does well if I I know everybody I'm
the founder I can pretty I know how to
hustle the focus may get an initiative
passing some people might not want to be
a part of the doubt it is like that and
there was kind of a conversation about
what wall tiles are gonna have strong or
weak cultures and you know maybe the
trust minimization in these systems
comes from transparency not the lack of
trust systems so that's those are the
experiments we have another fed about
what we should be cautious about sorry
that was that was yeah so every avoid
politics where is that intrinsic CEO I
think that was an interesting
conversation and yeah and what can we
determine with besides that was there
was a so for one thing a Daoist assent
mechanisms they can be coupled with
norms in a community those norms can be
self-fulfilling the great feedback loops
right if you've established and this
norms like we've got we need be able to
invade and slash people like obviously
you're gonna create a self-fulfilling
community in that way
oh you donate on chain and you get for
every dollar you successfully I'm
looking you get it took any hello ever
see the price it sounded a lot like
hydrology to talk to me yeah anyways
probably
and then also was the USB Co other
thoughts Jesus sorted things through the
whole lot of Ethernet can you avoid
politics more - you think about profiles
for users that are participating in
gearing experiences for them actually
which I asked for detail back because I
was in February was like building me
experienced tours of profiles of people
summarizing that I didn't fully drop it
sorry and then the other can be problems
with information asymmetry antennas when
there's people who are like curating
Anna's so like they might know what are
actually good proposals and stuff third
costs that are not monetary the usage
that comes back to living the costs so
having the decisions where's your boss
there was a little taxonomy kind of
similar with that group one suggested
like some are fund allocation vehicles
and summer decision-making or parameter
settings as sometimes legal restrictions
can play into that so you can either
like take that in C or the incentives
and mechanisms that are considering when
designing we're down or you can just
like copy and paste bylaws from the
existing corporate or governance
structures and basically just happen to
with guarantee a trustless enforcement
there's a little bit of a thread I think
we got a little bit greement by the end
where was like cows are kind of just us
building rules that are more trusting
ports it seems like we got kind of
disagreement but there were a couple
caveats about whether that there was no
doubt can I have a dictator and know
it's out has its rules enforced
Russell's interest
it's a little too big caveat sand isn't
just an organization that's on channels
voter participation should it should be
required should be opted in there's an
idea what if your your lock screen on
your phone or marketing devote itself or
you use it and yes security tokens that
was the notion of way maybe you get
future revenues well questions about
down into the rules and questions of how
do you do with early members having the
dominance of reputation they're down so
he she needed to K or is it a good thing
any questions or additions to ask that
it was a really comprehensive this I'm
really excited to read there was a lot
of really good ideas the promise things
kind of interesting dan is a comment or
what I take away from that is like we
should definitely have like culture is
what brings people together and so
profiles are cultures that component at
profiles and so if you have too many
heterogeneous people then it's really
hard to actually create culture or look
at a line goal that's how I interpret
that great that's awesome yeah tons of
thoughts there ok cool so let's move on
to governing davos governance who wants
to come thanks hey announce yourself hi
my name is jason time for malaysia and
this is tor light in a circle
our network so we have a lot of amazing
content okay personally that's why I
think okay in the last 15 minutes so we
talked about governance okay reason
being is because if the governance model
breaks down then everything basically
cuts over so so complicated governance
be one chain and off chain and all
should be Unchained
but it really depends on what you're
looking at where you draw the line and
incentivization models for example okay
should be common on a towel should be
unchain the line is drawn based on what
the purpose of the doubt is an example
that was brought up was marked ours a
good reference to check out they are
very clear line we teach 2.0 development
voting should be one chain and it should
be centered around the shared vision so
the second prong that we went into was
how do we support a centralized
governance immediately one of the
members said that if before anything
else the interface is very important
because the current voting in summary
results so we need to be the voting
experience much more easier for people
to come in and they said look at our
core our gotta stir us to look at and
one of the other
cooee we have an app okay bigger build a
big community and test a concept and
another member mentioned we need not
only the interface we also need a how-to
guide use this to make informed
decisions so how we communicated
coordinates so that people would not
dissipate any meaningful which is
governance right so before we even talk
about testing away our wonderful or not
something very important which is to
first establish what success does not
like okay successful governance should
match great returns not necessarily
financial returns but also social
well-being returns the forum that we
went into is that on how much does house
look a mirror to corporation or less
dependent are there any lessons that we
can learn from it so the innovation of
time that we have there was a long
samples okay that doesn't run on that
became referred to again social benefit
corporation don't know advisor funds
participatory budgeting by for example
what's happening in the US Madrid please
feel free does like all these keywords
keno and stuff you can check out later
you can do research on that as well v
prompt okay is when do we need to use
Solutions in town so what was brought up
was whenever that's quadratic funding
okay or whenever there's one person one
equals one vote okay that an identity
solution is relevant who is working on
this okay
we brought up I can hide entry which way
one of the members point out that when
it comes to identity it really is the
holy grail of this subject matter but we
still need to continue to work on it
with what we have another member
mentioned that know rather than ways
were giving me an identity okay we're
not we work backwards that a person can
basically put him up identity value
months and then fills it up from there
rather than having a centralized
Authority giving that identity that was
a very interesting idea I thought why
couldn't I just you know we use ipfs no
crime intensity on the blockchain and
that did it from there one element also
brought up the king of I'm sorry
identity has one book at a candy
capitalistic because when that happens
the more you have the more power you
also have the no voting process what
will be interesting but wanted people to
actually do is to have identity as one
union person and as for next time straw
man yeah great summary so yes that steps
that I pulled out we need we didn't
discuss as a group because we got
absorbed into the discussion itself as
the person next steps I pulled out of
the discussion would be perhaps to
develop good information curation and
discussion at this so first you know
facilitating a great way to have
discussions
decisions that cows are making but then
also to curate that information for
people who maybe aren't as engaged in
all of the discussions but we want to
contribute to the decision-making
another is delegated voting so so that I
think that kind of follows from that
where if somebody isn't able to make an
informed decision they might be able to
delegate their vote to somebody who they
trust to make a good decision on their
behalf and along these lines it would be
good to have an easy voting interface
that perhaps works with maybe all of the
different dau models so people can see
you know what does they're a part of and
vote really easily I think you're going
to need delegated voting for that so
that they can take their keys offline
and then just vote from keys that are on
their phone or something would be great
to have a unique personhood mechanism to
enable ID dependent mechanisms like
quadratic funding or quadratic voting
that we mentioned earlier on so you
mentioned a couple projects that are
working on this and it would be good to
see these like integrated directly with
dau or voting mechanisms a select bride
ID or I did three and then finally
perhaps we could design something off
the shelf models that people could use
for low stakes short-run dowels so that
we can quickly experiment with
governance and most importantly in a
diverse set of communities so that we
can see how these tools interact with a
bunch of different types of cultures and
people from different backgrounds and
age groups and so on and so forth and in
a way where people don't feel like
intimidated by just how much is
State but something that could just be
like quick and fun yeah I think those
are all being pretty cool next steps to
take on as a community just one address
something excited as a next step which
is an easy interface and actually Dow
stock has let me called alchemy which
has where'd all the towns our house and
you can participate they also MJ's is
building something called town house
which is where you can access a bunch of
the Moloch forks and actually instead of
launching your own lodging and access
there that's exactly equal maybe another
one it said lists these resources so you
can all understand
that was mentioned and was on your
sights on being a day one of this
because maybe the people know in fact
somebody from our team they talked about
having a United bounce I notice your
group let's put your notes into the hot
empty please do so we can capture them
so awesome and I'm really enjoying that
so I don't think that the doubt toolkit
meant great okay so that one's canceled
and so now we're not together but talks
about ethics come on announcer silence
you can cut the other two down or not to
doubt that there was some strong
opinions both sides of our group some
people very much never a solution for
anything all the time
so I'm gonna go through some of the
points the rate promise that we were
addressing and how you know governance
by both kind of assumes that voters are
informed so there's an ethical problem
with assuming that voters are informed
definitely when folks waiting is good a
lot of differences and discrepancies in
how well the voter isn't born as well so
we were looking at whether there's an
ethical responsibility to impress upon
voters that they should be informed as
much as possible as constantly as
possible and so it comes without
information asymmetry which other people
have been talking about earlier we
talked about accessibility issues
single-issue voters were a people mover
one thing and another participates in
everything else what does that do
and most people default to inaction
so what happens what we change this
model we're insisting that they take
action in order to participate and you
know that goes against a lot of
behavioral psychology and how people
operate so what it's going to be able to
take apart and who has the privilege to
participate all the time serving for
taking part in this town can force you
to be constantly voting who are those
people who are going to do that
maybe not the person with two jobs and
you kids so there's questions there and
then if you think about well we're going
to incentivize people to take part what
damage doesn't sensitization do so you
know if you it's about gamification what
are people going to do to win the game
do they really care the activity that
they're involved in
you know there's a strong feeling that
there's a lack of knowledge generally
amongst people building tales about the
existing literature out there
specifically around you voting and why
voting is problematic so I can't
remember the name it's gonna be here
it's got lots to talk about that we
talked to he really wants if you want to
learn more than well never felt so I'm a
geezer researcher so I care about
understanding the needs of users and I
think we should be speaking to people
who when building for to understand
their problems and their motivations
rather than just building it and see who
will come and that's a one of a good way
of addressing ethics 13th so yes some of
the things that we we should could look
at is you know it before communities
communities specifically marginalized
populations as well we could be
understanding the reasons why people now
folks if we could solve that problem and
I understand that and address it and
that could probably then solve for all
the people who do also lots of areas as
well so you have higher participation
event and also what understand why
people
all reasons to so we there was feeling
that the scope of current valve seems a
bit too large and we came to the
conclusion that in order for downs it
really makes sense you need to prove to
people who have in common a desire to
collaborate cooperate and have access
abilities do this thing but they've one
of these three things is missing that
it's probably not right to have a dowel
for it
there was definitely feeling that where
the Dow is addressing something really
life-changing the proposals could mean
life or death or significant effects for
people's lives we are not ready right
now for to be addressing any of those
kind of problems and thinking about what
is the risk to a person who leaves a
doubt you know is there a risk to them
in any way to and yeah we talk to it
just a little bit more about just
because this was brought up the idea you
know could you get someone to vote in
order to unlock their phone well what we
will might end up doing is in order to
incentivize people to take part in ours
we could be building in the same
manipulative design practices from one
of two applications in order to get
people to vote so there's an ethical
question around there as to whether we
really want to be doing that do we want
to make it a game so that people had
[Music]
Thank You issues
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let's go boys access to those
protect us good luck something which is
direct direct service and is no very
contentious
and maybe those have organizations in
small communities the blockchain and
when you can organize with that citrus
the user is like I've seen hello he had
think those structures is filled enough
for large well there was a question we
had about marriages if this is already
working effectively with innocence
community
you know world building to create the UX
and lunching is easier but are there
actual tools that have blockchain to
provide to help this community and if
they're doing okay
like is there something else that this
technology breaks that would have
improved the coordination it requires
behavior change and baby change is the
hottest it's bad right to get people to
do so right now the fire Twitter is way
too high and that's what we should be
addressing yeah and maybe finding the
use cases and the places where people
are ready to make that big a real change
but not so much focusing on the ones
where they're not ready for it yet and
analyzing that just about any good
practices sorry
very honest I think tools like blue meow
I don't know
you know it's basically in a case for
voting I feel like that's
very small small trust each other and so
it's still definitely assumes a lot
gonna find that like non-blocking tools
that are also very similar to what they
would scale up to be really good out
morning tools so it always like start
with a small group
something that has you know gas
transactions etc but the state
and it's really good like paper
penetration and there's another very
cool advantage that we actually should
believe all
it's not just me that's always it you
have to hear that around finding a
better collective solution than any
individual solution and that would be
something you should be thinking about
instead of yes/no things but at the same
time I can argue that no we should keep
its warming simple yes or no binary yeah
another behavioral change as well I
think a really interesting idea behind
that is that when you look at governance
right now like you know as a space we
try to be pretty well as this
communities we try to be pretty anting
you know money money money please do
that but I think when you look at
comments right now the money plays a
huge role right either do as president
you get paid with jillion dollars and
then heat up a jillion dollars for even
I think every year of your life and is
this whole governance structures have
been built up and financed around that I
think that's from like a mile up thing
that's what's going on with payer of the
moment right Paytas been pushing wallet
for a long time and only now as you take
the first chick to you know actually oh
you go right yeah that happens and
that's really important right I think
like the people that are coordinating
these tabs and the pre-offer see we put
into these systems you know they needs
to be fighting to banking behind the
news otherwise things would happen and I
think right now dad started so you buy
stable or not like it was great that
brings up the interesting question of
like are we actually changing the way
their organizations work like suppose
still needs to be paid for the work of
been creating or coordinating a job
we have this like a contrarian view
there's no leaders and doubts when there
are fundamental leaders and they should
also be compensated but then also we
have the ability to capture value in
different ways and traditional profit
structure is right so now we also have
the opportunity to redesign the
incentives which is really nice because
we get to create a new way for people to
be supported in effort to capture okay I
just think that we are seeing on the
wrong going name and by cutting it down
because we're gonna have a person that
is going to be leading the efforts just
not really a centralized and I think you
could change every second yes someone
has to do something another one sensor
me even what we do Alex we go to Marie I
would say it's very important to me but
there's leadership control so you can
say leadership has headphone that's a
great item recently I'm gonna show my
notes it's like wrong but if I agreed
Dow sailing term that's much broader
than what each
[Music]
you can also have some type of energy
centralization
the actual centralization of funding so
I think mister I could say if there is
leadership it's not be centralized
because we see the same thing like my
labor one right but you're gonna be
centralized notes you will have
centralization because it's all on hey
SS or something like then so I you know
if you do say that oh yeah I see the
letters D in a medium who is taking out
the trash doesn't mean they're the ones
deciding where the trash is going like
compact everything into it down right we
don't need to say that like a
participatory or a horizontal or
collaborative organization has to be a
doubt there's value in these essentially
separately and also I think we have to
your point we also need to acknowledge
that like back end labor happens so like
organize and socialize and create the
communications around how you
or horizontal organization we want to
honor that labor just to move about some
missed resetting base we have a product
problem at hand which ties which you're
linking to it is like we are open source
based right so there are people here
that are contributing with wording which
we cannot Remini rate based on the work
produced kind of right because they
can't cooperate so we have to come up we
have to come up with a way to
reward people who are contributing to
the common cause I think that if we do
it for ourselves then it might be easier
to other people because you know we
already you know
really I think I any part of that
yeah I think we still have one more
group so this discussion is so amazing
whether it be so cool if people have
other thoughts that they want to
contribute please put it in the hack and
we and we can continue this discussion
but that's really awesome
they are interviewing for participating
but we still love our group and I want
to give them the opportunity to see all
their think so lie down
I mean this is like so you know Mandarin
between three different kind of things
about the state of 2004 house we
discussed a lot about all looked out
great down wrote down all those we also
talked about a call to be bold makers of
the house and most important about what
now scoot to of the decision is great
future where we don't have all this
we only have 2000 they do what we want
even though we don't know what I'm
saying is it was a very difficult
discussion to put in two key points so
I'll just give you what we have so first
key point we had a consensus that
offline and online communities really
require deep relationships and most
often trust as well and we weren't
really sure if it is possible to just
model to trust away just by the
mechanism that we can just not have to
trust so it's definitely something that
any discussion about house will be
getting back into and we also caught
several use cases you can find them in a
heck of PL spend I just read some of
them and so one of the biggest use case
we had was that house allow and as a
pain and else allows sidestepping the
currents
that force organizations signals as the
structure into this binary decision are
we doing this for profit or it is not
for us so our claim is we can use vows
to kind of enable the spectrum in
between these two and like somebody from
the middle said a few minutes ago that
we can also really decide whether we
want to have the spectrum or on the
funding side or the governance side two
marriages have less both we won't have
this fluent and another plan that we
make is that vows because they are kind
of shared the software stack enabled
fluency and all that and this this is
what we believe this is one of the key
points for anyone who's investigating
that that this fluency in the structures
is one of the keys so to speak selling
points that we're all somehow
subconsciously hoping for what else do
we have here oh yeah one of the typical
use cases is a governance of
decentralized projects using the house
you all know if your projects simply our
house and they self organize that I
guess they don't give a rat's ass about
legal implications because why would you
buy with
what else we have here yeah obviously a
new means to capture value and maple
valley creation with less social and
legal friction I'm not really sure this
is the case in all cases
that's why benching are having us grow
shop I guess to just enable that you
design patterns that will make easier
for future generations of conscious
people to design those just in a better
way and open big plan we had
accessibility is still not very equally
distributed I mean there are populations
that are not online that there are
populations that do not know that you
can actually have an organization on the
internet that are people who are unaware
the forum's exist you know that's the
problem that is just going to my opinion
personal insult itself with time for
development of the digital space in
general and one plane that we had as
well is that they'll provide digital
interface to a social process that often
or in the past position so for instance
it was this example of the handout or if
we just imagine we have a more an
advanced version of that which is
actually a super pact you can kind of
see what's going on in a social system
that you normally wouldn't be able you
would only be able to see results
outcomes of that system but now you can
just go online right if you go online
and just check what's going on who's
quoting maybe if you cannot
which will identities to the virtual
boats you can still see what's going on
without having to ask your immediate
surrounding social network so maybe we
can actually gain some sort of super
transparency that is not really
something that humans have had in the
past and and you think - they have guys
and gals although we go out to the ocean
I guess that's it mostly I think do we
have some time I think every morning
what eyes of money yes we should
come here shareholders or nonprofit and
have a very hard question because I
confirmation that government insurance
as it is very much money but as
tradition is always been about helping
the community as well and require
controls but that structure is very
so it's a way that I can work but it's
exploring a new way to push a mission
and its society and what enormous
personal way I think that and also to
discuss the local community example I
might be that thou can be dealing as I
said uh people trust attentiveness that
knowledge between people in common goal
like to create the kindest or you can
curly make decisions and also make it
some people think outside the bubble if
this is a general power it's basically
when you have it's down to the next
level is nominee has much a tremendous
power disease wherever trustless
monetary system but now we can delegate
the trust and we can change in places
where traditionally you know we have
we're not some change that we want to
bind my personal interest is in the
humanity very frustrated
I don't believe that a lot of operations
and the government's will work together
to transition us 100 pesetas okay so
what if we have you know a cow that
basically collects funds to give out
noise for people who actually install
solar panels okay and we don't
compromise that is free from corruption
is mental manipulation
this coach is that like please I think
that this part it's it's kind of in some
respect or you know can I say it's what
I do
had these mechanisms already I think is
cool for us to play with the
diversification that is kind of good to
experiment and everybody doing that I'm
gonna go to an organization and do the
same thing it's like oh yeah that's I
was just doing that
I just kind of wonder the advantages so
for some who are coming from the vehicle
space it gives them more exposure to
senior processes and I think for those
who are already involved in that process
it can do that in the community project
site they'll have their own custom
expect that just feel like the public
versus and if these depend visibility of
where I work and say oh I voted on that
and now I have a family built in my
community or something that's the
science facility instead it's want to
say like there will be no disagreement
reinventing will to get to do things but
hopefully there is something that but
don't forget apply to it I think
yeah I love that guys I think we're
gonna cut it right there and that was a
great inspirational way to that so thank
you so much we are already about
diversity so much for spending this much
time with us please add any thoughts and
I can do even I already take this so
you've sent me out into the community so
also stay for you this is our Twitter
but again thank you guys so much for
your brain
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