[Music]
okay hi everybody uh my name is Wendell
Davis this is the gaming on the
blockchain panel um I have with us here
uh Tyler Smith from uh free my vunk
which I guess you guys just got a little
bit Taste of there uh we have Peter Bora
uh primarily known I guess for Dow Wars
and also some uh ethereum Rogue likee
implementations uh we have Julian pman
who is uh doing the poker work at
consensus and we have Vin Gupta who is
of course the Strategic consultant
actually how would you describe your
role Arctic strategic architect at
consensus and general renaissance man as
you know him very well so
there's a lot to cover here so let's
just get right into it um the first
thing I kind of want to talk about is uh
generally how gaming will change as a
result of blockchain
Technology um I was a part of some
discussions uh some time ago about about
this with I think Adam B LaVine talking
about how in the future it may be the
case that in fact gamers are kind of
like the Breadwinners of families uh
that a lot of work as a result of
automation Etc May shift over to kind of
uh interesting creative game gaming
oriented labor as it were work and uh I
I kind of want to get some feedback
about that and I guess I want to open
this up first of all uh maybe
to how about
Peter sure uh so yeah I think I think
it's there are a lot of different roles
that people play in games right there
are people who play games uh you know
primarily for fun on the weekends there
people who grind every day there people
who create content for games uh and you
know various sorts of user generated
content uh ways there are people who
play games for an audience on Twitch uh
and I think that sort of all of these
roles have different economic
considerations right they have different
uh implications and I think a lot of
them can be monetized especially things
that have a creative element because
when they're you know creating content
for a game or when they are uh you know
building something you know with the
whole free my vunk thing uh like when
you're actually
generating value then that you should be
rewarded for that and I think
blockchains by being a really good way
to spread value our natural
solution vid you're very interested in
the Pro gaming segment what do you think
about this topic well I think that it's
not unusual to us that musicians might
be you know primary earners in families
or uh dancers actors performers writers
so the idea that games and gaming you
know are a kind of modern art form
that's beginning to acquire sort of
legitimate status in an economy seems
pretty
natural um as for where that goes over
time I
mean you know if you think about the
size of the movie industry and how much
larger the gaming industry is in the
movie industry the idea that you would
have essentially kind of
professionalization all the way through
seems rational but a lot of it's bound
by IP law so you know if game assets are
copyrighted then how do you make fkart
around games and not wind up getting
sued and those kind of issues I have to
shake out as it becomes a legitimized
art form
do you think that uh you know every day
mom and pop businesses will find their
way into the games of the future
Tyler so I think one of the uh the least
explored areas within the video game
industry right now is uh user created
content and I think you're going to see
a lot of user created content start to
be included in video games uh
particularly I didn't talk about this in
my talk because it's not the very first
part of the movement but free my vunk is
going to be enabling by by by having an
asset registry on ethereum and then
characterizing those assets through a
file on ipfs that's linked to the
registry people can start producing
video game content themselves and
essentially act as consultants or some
sort some sort of service that uh video
game companies could actually go out and
Outsource some of the content that they
they normally create in house um and so
people can actually start making uh mom
and pop businesses uh single individuals
who just know how to use um 3D
visualization and know how to create
really cool objects and Empower them
with certain features that video game
developers find attractive so I think I
think that's really the kind of The Next
Step that we could go to um after we get
video game developers on board is that
they can start recruiting us small
organizations to to create the content
for
them so what about development um you
know if uh the gaming of the future is
going to change then obviously the
development patterns are going to change
and of course this is a developer
conference many people are probably
thinking about this topic um and I guess
uh maybe maybe juliean I can start with
you uh you know how do you see how do
you see things changing for developers
uh you know in terms of the way
development could be decentralized in
terms of the way Revenue shares and
things like that can can happen you have
some thoughts about that yeah I I mean
this uh this technology lets you uh kind
of modularize the the process of
building games in a way um where you can
possibly have uh different gaming shops
collectively uh contributing to a single
game uh earning Revenue that way um also
I guess on as an extension of the
development process you can have uh
users generate levels for games um and
earn Revenue that way uh tons of tons of
different potential um use cases
different revenue of different revenue
streams but um yeah Peter what about you
what do you think yeah
um I mean so gaming right now is this
incredibly one to many model right like
you you're developing a game you do it
by sitting in your apartment by yourself
or with a small team or possibly a large
team if you're a AAA company uh and then
after years and years of creation you
release the game and then people play
pay a F flat fee or they pay a monthly
fee and they get to play the game and
that works that's a like legitimate
model for gaming but a lot of the most
interesting content in games over the
past 10 20 years especially uh has come
out
of user generated uh things in a wide
variety of ways so MMO pgs are
incredibly popular and one of the
reasons they're so popular
is because of the sense of scope you get
from all the other players and because
of the complex interactions you can have
with other players um some of them like
Eve online is a game that is incredibly
boring uh for its own sake but the
reason it is has such a devoted
following is because it gives players
the tools to really make social
connections and come up with social
schemes to get their way in the game and
it really gives the players tools to
make each each other miserable there
consequences right and so when like the
the value of Eve is
not primarily uh derived from the game
mechanics is primarily derived from the
community I think that's a general
pattern that we're seeing more and more
of and so I think it's very I think that
uh blockchains by giving us a way to do
uh you know peer-to-peer
relationships that uh we can trust and
that we can rely on uh just open up a
whole whole range of possibilities uh in
that
world uh so Julian I'd like to ask you a
little bit more about I I think it's
it's ether poker that you're working on
at consensus um and and one of the the
interesting things you told me uh just
now was that uh you guys are kind of
trying to take away you know I guess
you're you're sort of thinking of this
as like a you know an infrastructure for
this as a service that someone else can
subscribe to so they don't necessarily
have to deal with the cards or the money
and they being the people that want to
set up a poker site or or something like
that can you you talk a little bit about
how that might work or how that does
work yeah yeah so the the online poker
Market is uh in in a very weird place
where you have a lot of uh parts of the
world it is perfectly legal to play
online poker but it is uh against the
law to host a poker site so what this
creates is a situation where you have a
lot of players on uh sites that are
outside of their legal jurisdiction um
that's a huge problem if they have to
trust uh holding a large amount of money
on these sites they have to trust that
that site is going to properly Shuffle
their deck give them the right cards
they're not going to have Rogue
employees looking at their
cards massive issues so the the idea of
providing infrastructure as a service
for that industry is basically um giving
open source tools that connects
uh these various sites to One Network in
which the players are encrypting their
cards on their local machines uh their
their money is held in escrow by
ethereum smart contracts um and you're
taking away that all of the trust uh
friction that's making it difficult for
any of these sites to get users and uh
you
you're basically giving them an easy way
to bootstrap uh the tricky thing with
infrastructures a service if your code
is completely open source is somebody
can just copy it and use it for
themselves and not pay you anything uh
the the way that we're getting around
that is by uh connecting these uh
various sites into one network where the
uh two sites could have players uh play
at a table against each other and each
of the sites will uh collect revenue for
it um by pulling the players you create
somewhat of an incentive for them all to
use your software and in that uh in that
moment where they are creating a table
that is part of that Network that's
where you can uh still collect a fee
even though it is open source do you do
you consider this really this to be
fundamentally about censorship
resistance just to get not to get too
political but yeah uh I mean I really it
I think it's great that almost none of
the projects that I've seen so far are
focused on that I think that as a a
brand ethereum is best off avoiding that
especially while in its like nent stage
um what we're building isn't to try to
get around the law it's to make it so
that consumers are protected from fraud
with these sites that they have no way
of uh you know getting their money back
if if if uh if they lose if the site is
operating on you know a fractional
reserve of player deposits which has
happened with hundreds of millions of
dollars with full bu um you know
situations like that uh definitely I
think create the uh use case for this
infrastructure without needing to um
necessarily be uh helping you get around
the
law so V you gave me uh an interesting
term uh while we were staying in the
hall talking about this which was
generative complexity and uh I think I
just want to kind of let you wax on that
for a moment
because it parlays into something I want
to talk about later well I mean this is
the whole thing about you know the most
interesting thing about a game of any
scale isn't the game mechanics or the
rules it's the action of the other
players and so far the only kind of
widely used mode of Engagement for that
is p versus P but actually there's a
much more interesting mode which is kind
of Minecraft style collaborative
building and my guess is that creation
of like large complex systems based
collaborative worlds that have economies
and ecologies will turn out to be like a
core medium of the 21st century and I
think you'll see this a lot when you get
this interface between the new VR
systems and blockchains for persistent
property that what you'll get is these
kind of you know like fake civilizations
running inside of this one um in which
the predominant complexities from player
interaction building social structures
building cities building Maps you know
Opening space Lanes whatever happens to
be you know genetically reading their
new works but that these things are then
you know uh like shared narrative like
the way that cultures have myths that
are retold and kind of fractalized so
what what happens when the next thing
that has the cultural impact of Star
Trek is actually a game with a quarter
of a million players this kind of thing
and I think Warcraft is close to that
but there's such limited opportunity for
player interaction that it doesn't get
over that hump into the thing where the
players are the story and the story is
the
Players we're going to have to solve the
The Grieving problem though grieving is
I mean that grieving is like one of the
biggest reasons why it's really
difficult to create these complex
structures it's cuz people are just
destroying them well that's a game
mechanic right there isn't it the the
defense of your complex structures
against you know uh player generated
Orcs you know actually I think in the
current moment a lot of the most
interesting stories we're generating
that way come from incredibly large
scale griefing there are some uh blog
post about ion line uh guilds that were
taken down by years of sabotage and all
that sort of thing and like as long as
as long as the game design makes that
fun that can be the thing that generates
the myth uh it's just a matter of
designing games well I have a particular
favorite Warcraft video which was a
bunch of people raing a funeral and it's
one of the funniest things I've ever
seen it's horrendous but it's
hilarious so do you think that there in
in some of that stuff that you just said
there's something that I've been
thinking about a lot as well is um you
know as as we spend more and more time
in these kind of environments you think
that uh you know because inevitably some
of this technology will be used on both
sides on in the gaming world and in our
you know Flesh and Blood world as it
were uh do you think that there are
things that will be portable in between
those environments and I guess I can
start with you because you probably
thought a lot about this uh absolutely I
I think you're going to see a real
blending of the gaming environment to
the corporate environment to the home
environment um and you're going to be
able to utilize Tools in uh in a virtual
experience between all of those those
facets um you know I do think we'll
solve kind of The Grieving problem in
certain platforms but uh but right now
um I I work for a major corporation and
uh when we have meetings there's a
communication loss just because there's
no body language and there's no uh you
know in a lot of ways uh teleconferences
just teleconferences are worse but
virtual conferences are better but they
still don't satisfy the need need that
we have to actually sit down with
somebody and and talk person to person
and I think that the gaming environment
is going to evolve to that point where
we're going to be using virtual
environments uh both at business home
and for entertainment and the rules the
rules of those environments the the
contracts as it were um do you see those
as being portable as well in the sense
that we could basically I know I've
thought about this idea that you know
perhaps a game or a virtual environment
might prototype certain types of you
know societal governance structures and
things like that and then it might be
possible in that simulation to Port them
over and V maybe you want to one you
guys want to jump in on that well I just
want to say that there's a thing called
Norwegian is it Norwegian LARP
Scandinavian LARP Nordic LARP that's the
phrase I'm looking for where they have
these very very hard-hitting lar games
and there's quite a lot of bleed over
where people take behaviors they learned
in the game like you know you have a
spaceship game that has like 25 people
locked in a tiny room and 6 months later
you discover that 14 of the play ERS are
still renting a single tiny apartment in
Oslo uh because they learned a set of
protocols for sharing the space over a
3D game and then thought why don't we do
that in the real world and I think that
that kind of bleed over is going to
become more and more intense as games
become like prototyping um I think in
particular there's a horrendous or
hilarious um bleed over from do startups
from dungeons of dragons right where you
basically have you know system
administrator sales guy you know
designer programmer are ESS character
classes and people that were kind of
conceptually trained on D and D viewed
the entire thing as finding a roving
party of Adventures and going off and
raiding Capital Dungeons and right same
thing with Warcraft right Warcraft
prototyped this style of you know for
person teams engaged in Mass
collaboration which is essentially
consensus right each generation
prototypes ways of living through their
games and then those skills go directly
into business so if we if we design
games that have the right kind of
complexity I think that that could be an
enormous empowerment for culture later
on but who's going to design the games
how do how do we bring the best models
into the games that the kids are playing
so that when they're adults they can
basically just go out and change the
world I I oh yeah uh sorry I didn't want
to be rude and talk out of turn but uh I
this is something I thought about a lot
I think it's really important I I so I
completely agree that uh we can use
games to prototype economic systems but
I think it's also worth considering that
the distinction between a game and the
rest of the world is has always been
blurry and is becoming increasingly so
um so there's an entire genre of games
called alternate reality games where the
characters uh call you on the telephone
and like interact in your daily world
and the
uh and there's a great short story by
Carl Schroeder it's called to hide from
far selenia and in this short story uh
there's one of these alternate reality
games where people play characters who
are essentially a Victorian Aristocrats
uh sorry I'll this will be quick uh but
they uh in this game they're socializing
they're uh you know uh politicking and
at a certain point they go to a
restaurant in order to continue politic
and continue socializing and uh the
restaurant is in the game uh but it also
is in the real world so they go to this
location and it's this popup tent uh and
there's food being served and they go in
and they come and serve them the food
and the food's really good they eat the
food and at the end they get the bill
and the bill is in the credits from the
game instead of real world dollars and
one of the players says wait like don't
I need to pay you in real money and the
server says no you you you pay us we
only take this currency and I say but
where do you get the money to run the
restaurant you're paying us but like
where does the food come from Farmers we
pay them and the the like thing that the
character has to realize in this story
is that they never have to go back to
the real economy because they're
creating all of the value inside the
game economy and I think that that bleed
over becomes more and more possible as
these uh systems get bigger and as uh
the uh you know blockchain empowers a
things that wouldn't have been possible
for do do you think this is what happens
to labor in the face of of mass
automation like that basically we all
move into these kind of spaces I mean
just I mean the economy is already a
social construct right like we have
chosen a particular way way to give our
resources out uh and as the system that
we've built becomes less and less
relevant as uh technology makes things
increasingly obsolete then I think we'll
experiment with other systems and those
systems might be games because games are
fun Tyler do you want to say yeah yeah I
was just going to mention you know this
is a little bit pie in the sky that
we're talking about but but we're we
have to we have to like say that we've
already made a significant step right
here that uh we can create complex uh
financial and legal contracts now that
can exist in Virtual space um which is
just a huge step forward to enabling the
types of things that we're talking about
right
now so uh I want to jump into one one
more thing about uh I mean I guess
actually we could we should take a step
back in a way because you're right you
know we're kind of stepping into science
fiction territory which well maybe it's
not science fiction but it's uh it's
probably you know it's road yeah indeed
indeed uh but let's talk about something
a little bit more a little bit more
right now accessible and practical so uh
Peter you had also talked about this
idea of uh different things that can go
on in sort of the the game streaming
World which has obviously become quite
huge in the last few years you want to
talk a little bit about that yeah so
um so Twitch TV is a huge company um
that the only thing they do is they
allow people to watch other people play
video games and this is becoming this
whole new cultural phenomenon um that is
really influencing the internet internet
um the way people live their lives and a
lot of and a lot of these streamers are
professional in fact the majority of
them are professional uh they make their
money off of AD Revenue they make their
money off of subscriptions they make
their money off of
donations and the relationship between a
streamer and Their audience is becoming
increasingly complex uh so here's my
favorite example so there's a game
called Mario maker and Mario Mario maker
is just a Mario game you run around and
jump on platforms uh but all the levels
are created by users and they get
uploaded to nint Nintendo servers and
then you download them um and they're
like game modes where you get 20 random
levels in a row and all that sort of
thing and what's happening is that
viewers are starting to offer challenges
to the streamers so they say I want you
to play a 100 Mario challenge I want you
to have at least 50 lives left at the
end and I want you to only play Japanese
levels um and if you do that
successfully then I'll give you
$100 um and there are major streamers
who have like taken this as a major part
of their streaming is that they do this
but it's all it's all honor based it's
all uh through PayPal you know there's
big fees it's slow it you know when
we've got games on the blockchain when
these levels are created uh you know
referenced on the blockchain uh when the
creation of a new challenge uh can just
be a smart contract then you get the
ability to have these relationships
between streamers and Their audience
become uh you know have all the
advantages that having something on the
blockchain has so what what extent
experiment in the space right now
actually comes closest to this uh so
I've uh thank you for the leading
question uh I built a
uh uh at a hackathon recently at the
black apps hackathon I built something
called ether crawler uh with two of my
colleagues Tim and Eva and it's uh it's
a fully functional Rogue likee game uh
very simple but you move around attack
Monsters uh but the cool thing about it
is that uh you can create uh level like
all the levels are user generated in the
same way as Mario maker and then you uh
set challenges for each other so you
basically make a bet with someone I
don't think you can beat these six
levels in a row and then the money
raised through that uh like a a 1% fees
is taken off the top and that 1% is
automatically split between all of the
people who created the levels involved
in that challenge and so um and in our
particular example we also run all the
game logic on the Block chain cuz that
was cool for hackathon I think in real
life a lot of the time the game would be
off blockchain it would just be the
levels and the challenges that would be
on blockchain uh but either way uh you
get sort of this
uh blockchain eyes Challenge and you get
this blockchain CH chain uh Revenue
sharing and I think that's a really
powerful model so that uh the code's up
on GitHub uh ether
crawler uh Julian how do you think we
get people to to get interested in this
stuff to to use to use this stuff to
think about this in the the core process
when they're actually thinking about
building a game how do we how do we make
them see that this is well you know how
do we convince them this is actually a
really important piece this is something
that they'll be missing out on I mean I
I think uh I think games like Dow Wars
actually help with that getting people
to experiment with um with blockchains
uh and fool around see what they're
capable of um I think a lot of the a lot
of the time it's going to come uh from
uh like Tyler was talking about earlier
targeting uh smaller um Dev shops that
are trying to break in with something
and they in in the case of in the case
of Poker it's they need to get users to
trust them in the in the case of uh vunk
it's it's it's getting users to have
something uh new that they don't have
with other um other games and uh I think
yeah like targeting the targeting the
smaller developers is the way to go with
that so uh the of course you guys heard
Tyler talk about uh cross game items and
bunk and all the interesting stuff
that's going on there um but I think
this is this is an interesting topic
because it it may be something that's
quite contentious among game developers
in other words the idea that you know
perhaps items can free flow between uh
different titles and things like that so
Tyler I wanted you to maybe start this
off and give us some thoughts about uh
you know the conversations and issues
that you've had uh communicating this to
game developers and what people might
say in the future because traditionally
of course in these worlds they've been
able to control you know the game
developers control nearly nearly
everything if not everything uh besides
player actions
so uh yeah so we we've had uh several
interactions with uh different entities
um we we don't formally launch by the
way until January 1st so there's some
announcements I can't I can't make um
but hopefully we can we can add upon
that now that you guys know what we're
doing um so uh there is mixed reaction
uh I would say that the the smaller
shops are very very excited by the
possib abilities uh there was actually
an experiment done by a larger shop
though um in Diablo I they had something
called the auction house where they
allowed people to actually uh withdraw
real money real you know Fiat money uh
based on sales that they would make in
in the auction house and it got a little
out of control to be honest um there's
various rumors for why uh they had to
shut it down um and I won't speculate on
those but blizzard eventually decided
that they they they couldn't maintain uh
the auction house it was it was not in
their best interest at the time uh but
they said it was a very valuable
experiment for them and it really proved
uh the value of vunk in in in a really
meaningful way um
so the the idea that you could actually
trade crossplatform when you were done
with a game might seem a little bit
scary at first to a game developer
because they understand that they have
uh an appreciation curve and then a
depreciation curve to their game um but
anyone who really understands that
understands that you you never keep a
player
forever um and the short-term gains that
you would uh you'd be able to obtain by
not allowing players to uh trade their
vunk with someone else uh is is not it's
not enough because when you can monetize
an asset you're willing to invest more I
would be willing to spend a lot more in
a game that I like if I knew that I
could change to another game later and I
don't have to go from being a king in
this game to a popper in the next game
um but regardless I I don't think I know
a single gamer who plays only one game
we all switch games become outdated we
start to play new games um and that's
just part of the depreciation cycle of
of technology so uh in the end I don't
think that there's going to be any uh
reason for game developers not to adopt
this technology because it's going to be
in their best interest to do so in terms
of overall investment though of course
that does change sort of how they have
to think about games from a from a
design perspective yeah I mean the
design of the game is going to change
somewhat when you realize that these
people are going to be actively trying
to monetize what they're doing in the
game so game developers are going to
have to take different strategies on how
to approach their user base um simply
because it's changed V you have any
thoughts about
this well I mean if we go all the way
down this path and we erase the line
between games and work and you wind up
with huge Capital assets that exist only
in a game world or as reputation in a
game so imagine a slightly different
history where Dungeons and Dragons had
professionalized and people played it on
late night television and you had
Dungeons and dragon stars which is
essentially your Twitch thing right so
you know to have your skill in the game
be something that sustains you
economically poker players in a lot of
ways I feel like this is the
mainstreaming of something which is
already there and weird into a new
normal that people will just accepted a
generation is Perfectly Natural like you
know of course you could take your
status out of one myth into another myth
in the same way that comic book
characters don't disappear when they go
from you know Iron Man to The
Avengers uh B like kind of Michael
moro's Eternal Champion Series where you
have this same guy that goes through a
whole bunch of different genres and is
always the same Jerry Cornelius I feel
there's something it's almost like this
stuff be becoming fully encased in myth
and encapsulated in myth rather than
sitting as this outgrowth of you know a
board game they're taking on the kind of
Mythic structures that characters have
always had in fiction and and myth and
storan you know Legend it all has this
kind of persistent quality that things
interweaving and this kind of soft way
so I think games are growing up if
that's what's going to happen next
Julian you have any
thoughts yeah uh not a ton to add but I
actually think that um it's interesting
uh kind of the the the way that uh
gamers are becoming kind of celebrities
in Korea and everything I think that
might be where we might start to see uh
kind of people making their living not
from being a professional gamer
necessarily but just a hardcore gamer
that kind of pays the bills with it um
type of thing they might they might be
more interested in uh the concept of uh
of vunk and and and and other ways of
making money with games and um that
might be an interesting place to to
watch
Peter uh yeah I mean I think that
uh all
like I have trouble pinning down like a
specific thing I'm excited about in this
whole realm because I think games can
just be everything right like it's it's
human interaction and human interaction
is powerful and fun human interaction is
especially
powerful you know what uh one day
digital wallets are going to replace
bank accounts and those digital wallets
are going to be full of
vunk all right so we have uh about 10
minutes right left okay uh so does
anybody have any questions for any of
the panelists or generally
speaking anything at all
because we can keep talking what's that
hold on we have we have one back
here thank you so uh one of the things
that is that is on might been some
people's mind is you know gaming on the
blockchain seems like a very interesting
space um at the moment there's
potentially you know some things you can
do already but some things are more like
into the future what's sort of the
technical and scalability concerns
you're thinking about are the things
that you've built that make things
better maybe say you know um like State
channels or things like that what are
the the things you you keep in
mind um anybody I've experimented with
this yeah so the problem with games on
the blockchain right now is this is that
we have a 17sec block time and 17
seconds is a very long time in most
styles of game and so I think there are
a few different ways around this one you
can build styles of game where that
isn't actually very long if it is a
turn-based game in which a lot of
thought is normal there are various
games that where real world time has a
big effect um and so you like send your
ships out uh and it takes four hours for
them to get somewhere and so the fact
that you wait 17 seconds to order them
to go doesn't really matter so that's
one solution another solution is that
you don't build the game itself on the
blockchain you build structures around
the game on the blockchain so uh this is
basically how I think a real product uh
that was based on The Ether crawler
experiment would work you uh have a
single player game that runs on your
computer like normal and the thing
that's blockchained is the level
creation saving it on uh in the cloud uh
rating people's levels getting assigned
levels that all can live on the
blockchain and 17 seconds is fine for
that uh the third option of course is uh
something like uh payment channels
lightning Network um if you
have uh if the rules of the game allow
for uh State transitions
uh where you've got a a game State you
take an action and that action plus the
game State leads to a new uh State then
you don't need to necessarily have the
blockchain know about the entire history
you can just have people agreeing back
and forth in the same way as you do a
payment Channel and only enforce the
rules on a particular State transition
if that particular State transition is
argued about um that still doesn't get
you to real time but uh that helps uh
yeah anyone else I actually have a
comment
challenges so one of the things that
we're really challenged with uh at free
vunk is the fact that we're trying to
abstract away the blockchain a little
bit for the average consumer um is is
the costs of uh of lots of
transactions
um we're going to have to mitigate that
in the beginning by being somewhat more
centralized so that we can uh maintain
digital wallets something like a
coinbase where we move uh value around
without actually uh publishing that to
the blockchain only in chunks every so
often uh because otherwise uh eating the
cost of trans of millions of
transactions is is really really
difficult um because the blockchain's
not
cheap so not really a question but just
wondering thoughts of how VR like Oculus
Rift um might plug into this blockchain
world of the future
yeah I can comment on that since since
that's actually my thing um this is uh
my company is visor we're we're doing
actually something very similar to that
it's a it's an open source uh web- based
creation tool for for VR experiences uh
using the web VR API and uh I put a lot
of thought into this kind of stuff and
it's kind of why I led with some of
these questions regarding like you know
the you know governance issues how these
things could work transparently
uh Between Worlds and stuff like this um
you know our initial our initial thought
was probably to do something more along
the lines of of vunk you know because
there will be assets uh we'd like those
to be decentralized uh we'd like people
to be able to bring you know and and
we're not we're not really a we're not a
games company right we're making a games
engine uh effectively and uh it's not so
important that you know some strict rule
hierarchy be followed but more that you
know people are able to move stuff
between uh you know different instances
of visor so that's something we've been
thinking a lot about and we'll probably
be doing next summer and then
Additionally you know uh per the topic
that I mentioned you know I'm totally
fascinated by the idea that essentially
we are going to be living more and more
inside of these Virtual Worlds
absolutely there's just like I don't
know there's no question of me that
that's going to be the case and I want
personally to be able to know that uh
you know what works there Works
elsewhere and so those two topics which
I you know somewhat mentioned here like
those are kinds of the things that I
think we'll be focusing on quite a bit
um so there there's another effort like
this I think it's called
vilus um which I think KY Miner and some
Argentinian guys are working on I I
haven't actually tried it out yet but um
yeah I mean I think the the future of
this stuff is quite obvious it's these
these two things are going to be paired
in really really interesting ways so if
you have some thoughts about that please
come talk to me afterwards I'm
definitely interested in it any other
questions okay make a we expansion oh
you have a comment yeah so I think there
are kind of four or five technologies
that are all going to hybridize in
completely insane ways in the next few
years right so vrn AR blockchains weak
AI uh robotics including drones and
internet things I think are going to
mash in you know each one of those is
currently at the limit of investability
and over the next few years those things
will mature to the point where you can
start seeing real investment in the
interactions between them and what's
going to come out of that is an eruption
you know what do you have when that you
have a company that has all four of
those Technologies integrated the
product what is that even going to be
like you know self-flying drones that
use a blockchain to negotiate for
airspace as they make package deliveries
in people's you know AR games that's
right that's right yeah
totally I you can just sit down and play
this as a game right where you basically
sit down and try and imagine a product
which is all four of those Technologies
interacting inside of it and the things
that come out are just science fiction
in a can ab and that's the entire next
10 years it's going to just I can't even
imagine it's our minds yeah it's
actually I think this is the most fun
intersection to possibly be working at
so you know just food for thought who
else we're good okay time's up thanks
guys appreciate it
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