[Applause]
nice to meet y'all good morning for
summer yesterday party so we're gonna
start smoothing the workshop first we're
going to have a very quick presentation
of Cummings gonna go down and but it'll
help ease that we're getting to
discussing what the foots are although
we want to open as many questions as
possible so that we are forming groups
of people use and then addressing the
four topics and opening up as many
questions and learning as much as
possible
from all of us I think that this is
quite a big first group so we all have
different types of colleges very I said
my name is Anya on a bike I know where I
am actually focus on being nationalized
facelock but more or less I'm working in
a black suit space club so very trying
to
[Music]
she's gonna about herself by
results are good there be like you don't
hurt me help
today I'm we're actually in a finding
but the probably going to be without
might be done luck finding weather right
super sick soon we might be and what are
the legal obstacles on our way to hi my
name is buddy and I'm very happy to see
you all here are very a lot of human
interfaces so we are also happy happy
facilitators with a stellar experienced
facilitators max from peacock and Felipe
from their site so we are also part of
peacock specially Anja and she is a
founding member of the CO and we learned
a lot from this community which is
actually organizing events and working
on a strategy for governance for
different options maybe you can also say
research is not from political science
to technology try to assign a
cross-functional
against personal people together to move
this context issues we have been seeing
a lot of different presentations and
panels and I I heard when there were
questions really tough questions us they
say it depends on the governance we are
going to adopt so every time we're
talking about governance but we don't
know what this is actually and this is
also the idea of our workshop so we
would like we were thinking okay what
would we like to discuss and if we think
about governance forking is the extreme
event that could happen actually and
then we were asking how much do we know
what works who is talking about work
squeezed preparing plans for the
readiness workforce this was our
actually stunned an additional idea
so because we said we have a really
short presentation and then we're going
to work in groups after that also the
groups are going to have a presentation
about the airport
so the methods we were thinking of
having methods where you might be used
to example different types of
compositions onions and more about this
yes I don't know the description of the
workshop firstly there was a reason more
like more and I second court it's a
legal thing you got on a competition and
he presented an argument to propose of
the parties in order to convince the
judges and what I'd like about it so
much that the judges are usually the
real judges so it's not an imaginary
case it's actually the real law that we
use and the real judges are informative
so whatever the cases they're actually
getting the knowledge of how case in the
future might be solved using the laws
that we have and right now we are
actually we might be imagining an agent
or a fourth but what we have is fear so
whatever scenario we're going to have
whomever we're going to speak to you
might actually use somewhere in the
future and what is really important in
the Bollywood courts is the
argumentation so if we're taking and is
that we're saying and we want to do that
but this is the argument why we need to
do that why this is important and we
really like to work on that in in the
groups so we're not really gonna go
having a case in front of us though we
don't usually pack up little ones no
comparison better credit variation but
we only have to re subbu from that idea
and which is going to important person
people and having special things were
useful but see using the argumentation
and they're not any more presentation
maybe tend to get other information so
the issue is the form whether if
whatever works when are they happening
how are we reacting to it who are the
stakeholders in this fork ecosystem so
we can tell you little bit about the
history think about new types of works
so you might not believe me just stop
forks and how it works it actually might
be relevant you think about the reasons
for works and I create new types of
consumer if that something works based
on those reasons we are the issues so
the history of works probably everyone
here
the dogwood which was finished about and
but you go through history or wealth
works you see that there's more reasons
and the buggy's one of the reasons
so the but actually functional state
website in order to actually saw that
work very kindly the whole community
committee good defense mechanism so we
are many congregations work so that we
prevent the hacking so that provides the
malicious abusive the code but all the
works are not to be necessary basis the
goodness on the court on a code might as
well be just an upgrade and if these are
the factors that vary
[Music]
so we are talking here about governance
we don't want to go into technical
details but we everybody for at least
it's really easy to copy paste the code
but we would like to think about the
governance so if we're doing for example
for example a spin-off of a coin what
what governance is included here are we
talking to the community how are we
communicating with the community also
the opening of DEFCON we were hearing
about business in you and they were also
saying we need to focus on communication
to our stakeholders so exchanges
different other organizations this is
like a plan for the next year's for our
blockchain so how are we communicating
that internally and also externally to
to the whole community
okay so this is something that NATO came
up with or political sign
readiness action plan is pretty much the
plans that governments are having when
the Sheikh Osama
so when there is a for example a threat
or any price on the interstates the NATO
and all international communities are
actually having to threaten explains how
they're going to be a combat right and
what what is happening we first if you
saw through your community thinking if
it's not really just an upgrade and we
have to be ready as much as possible so
that kind of has a beat America has been
our leader and the fancy procedures and
according to called by the tribes that
actually creates the station that
creates the reaction platform they
actually have all the right in such a
palace prepared so that people know how
to react appropriately and as fast as
possible and be as efficient as possible
so next night we actually have weights
should be all about to have as possible
sweet never-ending responses that we can
Queen and then we have a property
terrorism
so for that to happen we actually first
need to discuss what magic works would
have what in the East we are addressing
one of the obstacles easy actually goods
to port or not obvious something that
but yeah this is just a picture in
presents that we want to collaborating
kings and have a discussion right so
learning to have to pursue the
interesting platform to groups and
annulation discuss all these topics
maybe we can have been merged two other
groups together so we have four of them
when he's faculty for motivation for
first whatever about to work and then we
have for communication
which is pretty much relevant for the
government community and technical
aspects so we see this group we know
some people but we don't know all of you
we were also thinking of having
different groups in and also like ideas
interacting with each other from the
nipple point of view communication wanna
do a technical point of view you can
also form groups if you would like to
talk to lawyers or just to tech people
developers we are very flexible in how
to form those groups but those are some
suggestions from our side so us with
blood and he was
[Music]
I think these two are very connected to
each other we got even the motivation of
Dianetics the creative economy so we're
just going to merge those and we have
two artists so don't worry about time I
think we have enough time to actually go
through all these questions and then we
can merge there for communication which
we do in technicalities to maximum that
I think that it sort of that might
actually direct I'm probably thinking
about which tools to use and who are the
stakeholders that are actually
so if you feel okay to that license make
to post it's about the two groups and I
think we should lead into two groups um
we have two considers they're going to
take care of planning also they're going
to have all the questions presented so
we might have to you guys and then
Indiana me somebody here
if the group is smaller we can also
discuss in it it really depends on what
you're interested in and what would you
like to discuss I mean do you have an
idea have you been asking yourself about
those questions not - not really I mean
yeah yeah
[Music]
did anybody hear or any part of this
basement okay
so Iowa State
[Music]
signing up the McCracken account
we hope you inspire us like
didn't go through the entirely KYC
process together and unlike the job back
happened I was like texting my friend
that works at crack
celery's I was like I think this is
enough matter like about like I was like
it just made me like it just reminded me
of a theorem again the same you being
lazy
every process about materialism
so that Hank actually probably
when we have those for securing the sort
of a period of of exuberance the same is
true both of them UTC
you see mediate for the de both those
cases who ended up creating something
that we can order the ETA et Cie
imported bunch of people who have been
in that that injury
atheria before but you know fell by it
[Music]
you certainly market price of the
combined thing was was greater than the
previous one right for for at least in
that area and then we have easier when
BCH appear to be split off and that
happy also affect it just like it's kind
of funny to verb the community to
complement that information live today
only even don't know and there is this
different perspective on reports
promised my project had so long that has
nothing to do
but this almost is that okay it's a pure
element there's divorce though from
value of the currency on the chain
that's okay
do we know whom the actual promised
there were a lot of people on defense no
we're not global that's all right well
maybe the function not speaking
specifically but it's here and yeah
yeah because you've got kind of two
decision points as a user when wind as
well if it's achieved as a change to
your persistent you'll be using firstly
you there's the question of the Eurasian
support chain or not but then one if the
chain goes because anything happens the
question is that do you then support it
to the extent of supporting mine at the
minority branch and do you actually
think that it's worth actually have an
ad vision and how do you fight if it's
well I had so so part of it I guess is
just whether it's something that's
fundamental to you as part of the value
of the thing right so for the EDC guides
you know if you've got something that
can't be tampered with by some social
process then for them is do there's just
no point in even being artifact that's
just not something that's interested in
wrestling and the same thing was true
with the BTC BC BC age for that as far
as the BCH guys were concerned the whole
thing they were trying to do was build
cash vessel and that if you said then
say okay we're not going to scale this
scaling is not very important to us
I know the karate it's about a witness
at least the shorter people you know it
wasn't really interested in using this
as money for everybody then as far as
most be th class concern that's just not
making something that were at Everest in
doing so so even though they lose this
huge Network effect they lose the ground
and lose all the stuff that Bitcoin has
but for them it's just not worth while
being Bitcoin they draw that their own
thing even if it does turn out to be in
a general sense what I'm doing is that
at the heart of a fort it's a
technical issue were not to where luck
or ahead in the end the main reason for
the fork is a disagreement or the
divergence or principle and that in at
least who are at least until the BS
being one I think the BSB wants more
Intel personalities and if you're doing
and what we're doing when we have the
speed like this is based coming to
politics and once you're doing politics
that obviously as well as by the news
you have personalities in factions
and it was always just about money
nothing else it's just another was
mining interests like miners being
and in theory Lewis's the poor community
having
why I won't get anything what I hardly
think well it's just not enough of the
community involved because they love us
the money back and it's not did you see
had proven that was very costly to do
this because I was not expected at all
right everybody thought everyone was
going to go over but still you have
vested interests like somebody lost
money who has expense to gain money or
losing power since gain power
minor second Bitcoin and I think
actually the people who are interested
in the principle usually are pretty
silent and don't give medals in the
principles are not driving this course a
lot I would say that probably unashamed
that doesn't have money as a token
and you wouldn't have this kind of
debates with other things about polls
okay so it's more in Northland at this
point to retain theory no no no there's
a lot of - how you see that history it
was a lot of our people we had scenes
putting strings making sure that goes
from the house because so and that's not
necessarily comes up first but I think
it's people so in the case of the
country reducing the value of the
network
funny and I mean it's like the community
but like it's it's easy and money i
first up with something network where
like but you would be just like
workforce or something like that
expected this would be the part of you
know all the debates and stuff and I
think that more than bunnies like that
we're about you cruising another like
because Indian like it just takes that
of this D really must accept on anything
obviously like and they're not going to
need governance to you know to decide on
with and here in this precise case like
yeah the other days
the stakes are websites are money and
stuff I don't know make maybe I don't
make money like this about money they
follow you probably I would suit my do
more than money
yeah but there are three different
things about right the one is like
Bitcoin as payment tool the other is
people having Bitcoin and then there's
people making bitcoins online and I'm
not sure what we pretended is being the
cosmos park was actually always why the
corporate so and that was a big
political game but I don't think it
would
politically charged and so now the
accessibility would you say that we kind
of need a new economy seems I mean we
are already on the reasons
money's a new study incentives there
might be reasons they both
great I wouldn't necessarily say that
before
we chose all the okay so that's sorry I
don't know what the people that are
deciding of course at the end of the day
of mine so and they're driven by
they always capital
[Music]
but the developers their reasoning is
different it could be heard about mr.
Cravens but it's ultimately the minor is
decision with who who is you know more
correct it's like it before callously
they're like this chain is going to be
more valuable so we're going to go
mostly they have to fix their decision
based on value because the capital
investment
yes the chain without the money value
would just be the miners deciding
whether that developers still need the
world exchanges possible because
basically nobody would have cared I may
not be in the case with the BTC be
states that basically miners are
defeated right the miners are certain
authority of the miners warranted a
block size upgrade you know if your
people will say with them and they don't
it was the outcome yeah it's like it's
like a chain it's like the miners do it
based on profit but it becomes
legitimate based on exchanges like the
doc did so it's like they're taking a
risk that this is
more profit but it's like a gambling
game or so you have to like figure out
okay which one which path should we go
so I'm hearing two things when he
supported the stakeholders so my name is
the credit various exchanges who are
very sort six yeah there's a hydrating
and it's like took pass it's like first
it's the developers and some items like
the exchanges its accusers rights like
the flow like that I don't think I said
well it's programs as though it's one of
those things that yeah change color
yeah is to develop this equalness at the
society like well divert slash Twitter
that's right developer slash Twitter
again appraised like everybody things
it's a bad thing but we know it might be
technically will thing just because it's
technically because
yeah yeah I mean I mean ha I thought it
was helpful it's awful almost not worth
using in this discussion into the I mean
there are very kind of a technical
detail of how upgrade is done but I
think what we may need to hear is he
coming for us right we're talking about
whether they mean he splits or accantus
bits so normally I would put words in
economic for when you when you end up
with if X be two separate currencies but
that but then the economic forum
[Music]
and in that situation continue with with
something that was happening at the
beginning like we have in the section
also going on because an exchange of
hats and developers basically say these
funds
and it's I think that's me one very
interesting case worth telemedicine lady
who's actually responsible for maybe no
like deciding what are these sections in
connection Cyril I think that's
there's all of a sudden because they
don't have the government's system where
did you hear that decisional cables just
want to loosen isn't this analysis a
decision-making process they just have
developers themselves so that's one of
the questions we are having tonight
whatever so say that we actually have
one community that besides that we are
able to at least partially identify to
stakeholders that are going to provide
us with those answers and if we lower
interview on the barriers reports I
think that means that there is plenty of
options to create a lot of words and
sweep the community and all of a sudden
that we have more and more communities
but less than that stakeholders that are
actually governing the whole system but
at the same time I mean that might
actually be good
it brings all of diversity into the
system whoo sighs thanks only these two
have fun
please be excited that was the other day
it's good it's just it's good to have
like like an actual process of my s take
place where you can say okay this is how
we handle things this is how we certain
exceptions so a higher pressure all of
certain things better
[Music]
we shall have a process in place Nikki
for election voice absolutely it could
be very simple f7k is like 20 of our
producers with science of basically
policy elements etc and then if there
was like lots of that is 21 people who
basically people say okay we think what
you did was wrong based on our website
we creating if you this is the problem
with creative process this is wild
memory you kind of have to have forking
it's the ultimate program is the
beach.you creative process then that
gives you one attack sound so scripts I
mean when we we think at the government
you know if a court audience needs to do
something we consider that that's apt
every but you can you can also think the
bigger we start the kid with kidnappers
Gospel writers poets and any formalized
process that you have brings in some you
know some kind of possible possibility
of attacking you so if you think about
it compared to normal forms of
government you can kind of think think
of the Constitution you know that's what
I think
or something at least also they you have
observed certain Thank You Stacy coming
in at work consensus might be arrested
for something that kind of something
something like yeah bitcoins that he
doesn't a lot
okay even it's a safer and some way and
when pressured I have been support is we
want to create this process provides or
maximize support readiness to facilitate
and health works to have a normally when
employers because I because I feel that
an economic war dolls always a traumatic
experience because it was because the
power of an economy is directly related
to the amount of people
the community sheer absolutely wasteful
Fanning envenomed economy gives it
resilience as molar economies more
manipulable it's you can get a smaller
actor came in to have a heavy meals it's
easier to move thank you
so actually scaled in my and they were
they just got fifty one percent it
nobody gave us why i support that we
should be asking actually even whatever
they so do we want more for less our
citizens what is the target of that
process or is there protection of what
developers as you brought out right
against class actions for some coin
holders or miners or exchanges they all
have their investments and while we're
going to protect with this procedure or
maybe one procedure because that can be
detected and i think there's probably a
lot of untapped potential in the
technology that right now might be
violence acidity that's being enforced
by the economic issues I don't that's
that's the that's the blaring that has
to be negotiated and so that that's why
in the upgraded for it the ideal like
everyone do we wanna be conservative
for it and I think what I'm trying to
get I was starting to see is that there
is invisible for tonight in benefit it
can be anywhere if we approach that like
there's the incentive for this but
starts to grow and if anything what we
should do is create mechanisms to make
the sport line that is a law and make
people make sense sense make around them
so predictable
well just get people to talk about it's
a good at different like what is what it
is this way I brought up interests of
Myers that we're not quite up the DTC's
Bitcoin Excellus attacking material that
is probably part of the picture
so why divorced even had my own and also
this other fact that I feel lots of
technicians actually stay on the fence
they go either way you're not to go go
they don't have this kind of opinion I
have an opinion about box Texans go on
right what's better but the reviving
technician kind horses horses should
probably be on the table and bigger than
the whole thing was very similar story
who's that's what I thought he's
I thought proofer speak is always going
to be on the table so what the miners
knew what they're going into from the
beginning is not coming because of -
idea yeah
the title was not been out - please -
yeah I mean what is it you're doing
right now like to get ready for work
how are they communicating to the miners
to the community what do they have a
plan here - yeah no no no but like no
like the presentations that we were
listening to
like how do we if there is going to be a
new idea of a suggestion for the upgrade
of the software what is going to be the
governance going through how to discuss
willing to actually make a suggestion
when the decision is made
[Music]
that's why I'm bringing up exchanges
I think this is kind of a change that
we're gonna see you can increase me with
the ethereal as react interact more with
the rest the world because with their
coin you've got a currency which is just
a meat basically it's just it's just a
number and it kind of you through each
other they kind of about that except
they examine how can certificate is it
sort of care about but what we say
oopsey material is that now we've got
dye and dye is supposed to be one dollar
right so dyeing will not clean me for
probably if you have if you've got a
dime which is supposed to be picked or
honor respect using either on a check if
you've ever thought about changing that
one of the three things can happen one
is the only one chain one after either
still worth a dollar in the other one
zero dollars so that's just kind of
blown up your whole for key government
backstop system because of the minority
even if they're correct no no we have a
functioning are stable coin which has
just exploded you know two swings of the
contract at this point so that's bad
making weird if it's exactly balanced
you could end up with $1 be two dollars
one or each chain which would be kind of
very
unless you're clatter all day which case
the cut is terrible or potentially they
might both got to do so firstly those
are all kind of bad outcome so we can't
so much we've got dying we can't just
split that immunity in the way we could
at the time of the of the ETA t disease
walk it's gonna you know wreak all kinds
of havoc long ago but then the second
problem is who actually has the power to
decide where die colors we'll probably
the guys who are publishing the memorial
that's a very small number of people and
they now all this power of effectively
whichever side the making of Oracle
ponies that's how it's gonna wait so now
we didn't ever process we we didn't do
not refer people we do have to be pretty
soon the people who control basically
chain yeah but the maker Oracle is
basically a bunch of people signing
exchanges or they can't charge these
exchanges tea parties
yeah but you might see something needing
these on questions again you have this
pattern of the outside you run it yet
exchanges for the angular is the Oracle
yet taken outside value yet carrying the
day and then I go forward the next thing
that happens is that we're trying if
we're trying to be trying to change the
world when I'm trying to make things
right so we're going to try to have a
world that you want to say okay well to
which issue or my house right I want to
control the deeds of who owns my house
on an object when it was Bitcoin when it
was either we could just split and then
you have to be thorough when he thought
of Brian to see two big corners two
kinds of Bitcoin but I won't on physical
house so let me state chain we can't
split my house so where we were able to
kind of equivocating the world now has
to decide on one and that that means
that there are we into external actors
often potentially regulate factors as
well who now have control over which one
do they say when I say I own this house
you dug from this house and I get the
call to enforce you know the fact that I
can live in the house and you can't live
in the house then you've got next to the
port disliking which is really sort of
the thing with
because there's lots of exactly us there
was no place where it doesn't react
important yeah so basically I'll set
aside what it's like for us to get that
goes on the separator yeah and then the
other people could just drop with which
has to become as well is that the IRS
finally announced their gym or handle
pay taxes on on for coins and iris which
i think is technically correct but has
all kinds of nasty impacts is that when
you get a new console appears you have
to pay taxes on data set you just
acquired so now the MIR s is gonna
decide which is the pre-existing chain
and which is the new fortune and they're
gonna make me to pay taxes on you for
watching I think we have the situation
you know
New York Americans
we in our argument because we know some
of the people that work for tax
authorities and thing to have addresses
right to say hey we're going to so much
but okay so he's can it sounds like
we're already having third parties that
are deciding about myself so their
opinion having a mediation process in
place or like just about keep the court
systems well because there's a lot of
process and exactly yeah but on the end
might not care what we decide right I
mean how it might be actually much
easier to just go with an existing
support system and say okay you'll be
the ones deciding there's plenty of
different support systems in the world
so we don't really just find the courts
of many jurisdictions and many
international courts for specific legal
issues we also have different organs
WTO and health organizations and they
all have their own dispute mechanisms so
we if we want to become much more
independent it seems to me as if we were
that we will need to establish our own
district mechanisms so that we are the
ones deciding in which changes to return
and addressing those issues because
those were the debates we have with like
a workshop yesterday on the legal and
theorem also what to botanic would say
that sorry what the blood was saying so
like if we're not going to take care of
our own groups some other organizations
or institutions are going to come in and
say okay this is the right thing yeah
but who decides who is going to be that
easy
I mean we're not talking about you
America and and it also who do you say
however the stakeholders could even
maybe decide exactly that's really good
question like who
word players who are the stakeholders
again like is it deteriorations if it
died I don't know the foundation sorry
no I think that vary in terms of
psychology and maybe adventure
like so they are Confederates tickler
started under work in general and
instead that honored this marketing to
include negative the same thing that
we're trying to do it in the link but
you know it's about including the river
of giving a right to reveal her to have
an anus some poison to something like
organization and stuff I think that's
the very rectory keep our that this them
so did I think that what makes peace we
have taken his organizations like very
young a good a group of single buildings
specifically works of latex of weakness
miners and users and developers mainly
my hands and users injury to do segment
without the blockers to provoke a new
from now they get from the moments I
complimented the finest and users are
the country
oh there's the truth groups are
essential for a portable to you that
without users negative about you goes to
zero and one dead miners evaluates to
zero and so give us first leg first
group of staple them that really has the
I mean yeah yeah I mean you can go to
zero with can they can without users
will get like to absolute zero if we are
they what we're thinking it still has
some useful I mean if you use nothing
coverage of miners securing the network
it's very secure and you have users say
using UTM as a store value I mean still
about you do you scale I mean once you
take maybe some other network will scare
with maybe
like so if you can't use it if you have
a problem with being in transaction $900
to have value think a bit quite because
embarrassing your increasing that it's
like the number of transactions and in
theorem today it was like 1000 times of
no one
I hurt people so many views
I went through necessarily talking about
like practical more I cannot strike
width of this like a distinction to make
for the cooler side do you invite you to
the network and profiting from the
Detroit directly it's not the case of
like developers of an interest internet
internet or be considered somewhere like
their holders of the coin so then like
they provide development work to the
network in dirt you know do they have a
stake in the network but actually like
yeah I see this like very close
relationship with only women miners and
users who really have this I keep value
and take value from the network in this
an obvious relationship the author
concluded but I think that's I don't
agree but it's good you pointing to this
these groups because I think on the one
hand the miners are a non-elected price
on the other hand the developers
actually very very strong agree that
once and still politics and they're also
kind of not
there's no representation in a sense but
they still take the whole technology
stack in the direction that they as they
know that they quite important just be
blunt I think a lot of the navigating
that Silicon Valley is also having an
audience base also developers are
addressing my problems they are
interested a long enough improve things
so that's very strong I think you've
been there's no fork right but there's a
hard core of them as new features but
chess other words that this feature is
not going to people so so it's good I
think I don't agree that developers are
such an important group here but I agree
with the it's kind of like saying
aranaut only refined without like locked
answers users there's no Johnny I'm
ready for anything to have value that's
like technology that there's always
going to be have to be the control
literally improving and upgrading but
yeah like you were saying
very important today I think if you were
to take so same thing no other public
over the history of didn't know it so ii
would be created from now and
difficulties of you to tomorrow and
always defects in will we never use it
would you know now today it can still
work it was so hot buddy
but if users disappear nobody -
disappearing nobody but if little mr.
dear I don't need it anymore kit like
where I can get a big bit of puzzle like
we're soul
[Music]
a lot of pieces which is sweet yeah
that's in any case of a lack of open
market word like you would have some
other protocol that you take there what
about transparency so we kind of know
where how the core developers are
discussing we can listen to their polls
but what about miners do you know
anything about miners do we know this
community you know as signals we try to
gather the sentiment of different
stakeholders the human community to kind
of see which he is with by which groups
one of the proposals to change protocol
in a way that - kind of somehow switch
somewhere and indicate that they're in
the favor of the CP abundance the only
way we totally know that this amount of
power is for the city or not but
wasn't implemented is not planning and
otherwise they asked like wonder when
they discussed the the reduction they
asked like 3-2 the for one made sure
what we do when one small they tried to
talk doing this like one hour and a half
two hours but then they didn't invite
him for the verticals they kind of just
got their opinion but it wasn't
continued over time to develop the
solutions together future okay what
about mining pools like there were
sometimes OC to text or to
[Music]
when we are talking about how
independent or
we can call it or not and I think having
Connexus to reminders when I impose
they're very important
they can also be dangerous for those by
an example is that I didn't find them
that could undermine the whole idea of -
decisions are not immersed in our acting
but I mean we know that my reality they
call decentralized dictionaries
yeah so I mean that's something that the
cyberspace where all of a sudden
everybody is going to be so very
detached from all like who it's not
their only it's like Seikaly everybody's
going on offense or a placement in touch
with reality city think in the end you
still national partners outs was like
something else actually like trying to
decides to take the class and it's not
they don't do it they might move
somewhere else but that's exactly things
like if we don't provide mechanisms to
make this a base of legible for estates
and a stateless respondent government
and say okay this is what we need to
make this the space medical plus that
might detects this might be your
emanation whatever and so the do we need
to have the conversation which seems
like we always go between
those seem to be extreme so also we
mentioned being tied right we wanted to
dream of having a completely
decentralized internet but it didn't
really end up being completely
centralized and same happened with the
blockchain but when he compared it to
what was historically the previous thing
that we had it's much more decentralized
than what we had the port
so we mean that for example we had well
ok yeah you might argue that I would
love to be at the argument we resemble
even but I seized we had video and
television and newspapers and they were
just a certain amount of people that was
providing the information and we beat
the net we got so much many some which
court of the people that are now people
that equation cinco sleepwatching he
only had - and now all of a sudden you
have different cryptocurrencies he had
the ability have different entry points
and yes of course there are barriers but
at least we had an eternity so they
might still become a bit more
decentralized I mean I think it
increases like I said if the state
decides to intervene and as much
why I think the most important is some
make this big magical 4 HD so that they
can understand it's sort of like and if
they want to taxes that independence
you never tools tool well I think about
this thing that the taxes is that the
state itself is actually a decentralized
mechanism and he's more decentralized
the Kings were previously divorced so if
you read the history of how the states
and nation states were actually read at
least privileged centralization motion
whatever the power dynamics went before
them so I mean what I say is he said buy
some more I think it's states are much
more like well I stressed out see night
estate okay it's great legibility like
power dissipation of my kidneys to
states and say okay you as the king
wants to understand if it was actually
digging into my domain also he started
the way how it's calling people see
my god it's like making this big
manageability making a substrate it's
vegetable for today we can raise more
taxes things like that in the end taxes
like automate makes workarounds we
foresee the future so we do have some
institutions like checks and balances
and makes the differentiation of
different powers in the state so that
would be kind of an ideal the
centralization that I was telling about
before but yeah I mean at the end it's
like going back to to the topic
governance like yeah I'm just saying
that the states whatever the status will
make the spot-check thing vegetable form
of the state
whatever that me might meet me might be
okay in China or in in Europe you might
have said hey you have to refresh it as
a minor if you want to like operate as
an item might also just mean you can
just continue as a minor nobody
interested because the stages doesn't
it's important enough to expend its
resources are like this because
important but I think if we
our selves don't deal with like exactly
business or the governor's promise might
even say he's processed understand more
than some
the company outside say okay we need to
understand this because your developers
debugs save the money I was like 20
people which style $200 why and then
they will make legislation and positive
about you
you can decide that it's better to say
we as a community so try to figure out
these processes or one of the sponsors
as
yeah last year when they published a
tweet that there are no fun sent a
developer further but then it's not work
you live there and they got like two
investors and they now are seeing the
operation he won and his question cuz
they can develop the same software tool
to him and I think in the future you
might might prepare for the complexity
and like def 112 have seven different
versions to community comment and some
like for example available on successful
version of aetherium but still crazy
abilities say something that because
actually what if there has to do is try
to rejoin
as I've done everything they want to
watch charism serial 1x when the main or
custom to zero it accident have a lot I
don't know but it's interesting that yes
also this courage of the speech we
so why did for and this this something
actually my sister Harris for was one of
the first books were somebody that's
more that's out a long time ago they
forked ethereal instead so he gonna
create the economic version or a pet
business burden ethereal and then they
actually started to alter stuff and they
took it all back because they couldn't
keep up with
until they made themselves the paddle
again until the basically we joined
there's also I mean so you know wait by
conviction that means that it's a
fragmentation of a state right so it was
a federation before and then all of a
sudden that was notion that all states
became sorry we I don't think he's
necessarily a bad thing
although we do hear our parents and our
grandparents talk about it for another
five innovations was more like
supposedly like need to instructional a
greater whole aspect also telling I just
being I mean mostly
but it's a little bit work-wise look I
mean we have to come that for us right
doesn't make sense to use that build
that brings with it that is critical of
becoming independent as
my husband we thought we coined that
term is unity when it was fracturing and
resulting in huge war which to us would
to us quite accusing walk with every
different country through you know our
[Music]
nation's everyone's funny about it is
that we were sovereign and independent
for a couple of years and then we joined
the European Union so we never really
were a sovereign and independent state
as a not be connected to a greater whole
okay what we were discussing before the
the fragmentation and all the force and
then all of them uniting and coming back
together I mean that's the process we
have especially the we're kind of
comparing this to like bringing your own
company or building your own new states
when you're 14 maybe if we think about
working at all I can copy/paste
down and make
I don't know the idea would be kind of
different actually I think it was it I
think it was in March there were some
colleagues saying oh we should work make
it all who doesn't me interesting how
that is actually going forward it is
with if 1913 that a software for is an
attempt to actually take all the
existing but a logical disintermediate
the mechanism of maker right because for
example as you have something being done
about the the key the key I think you
just won and the thing is that after you
explains the importance of time China
the picture you don't have enough fiber
to understand but that's where it ceases
we had in every I won't have style coin
and the weights that caught his eye so
everything is gonna be dying so
basically there were seven never said it
was a multi sick of seven people and he
basically physically and psychologically
forced his partners
it's about need to take ownership and so
it's a document it looks like my men
like real life protected sort of it's
alright just like pages and pages of
bleep memos from inside it was a process
that was happening about six months ago
yeah and now we can do work and it has
all the billions of funds maker that is
commanding in the history he is the CEO
of his company once it's good but the
other side but specifically he can
control the price we know he he he has
the he controls the entire autistic so
if you draw the should get it to me well
what was the system before do you know
how to talk seen interiors themselves so
much that they're actually it's not that
much of a thing as long as the seven
people
[Music]
here that we can evolve again perfect
there is the darkness so we recorded
someone survive and some you move change
and some
so I guess the way I felt about this
originally when I was thinking when I
was you make only in small contacts I
thought that we would make a machine I
thought the models mechanical model when
you're trying to physically do things on
us that's kind of the idea that you have
this machine put something in is gonna
follow these determine steps so an
additional machine in theory can just
run forever but then when I started
working things like prediction markets
where there's a problem of parasite you
know if you have a young a prediction
marking system that it's reliant on
having a certainly not very talkative
orders too many users of this system
then it becomes insecure occurs a world
of placing the Graduate on it's worth I
started to think that these unchanging
mechanical systems are actually not
sustainable and that you have something
that's more like a biological system
where you've got a bunch of actors that
are continually evolving and if they
don't continue then they're gonna die so
if you have an animal it allows itself
to be parasites not a spectacle yes so I
mean think of the basic structure of DNA
where it's very bright you can't change
that right you can't change a lot of
what is programmability
and you want to change that base expect
any un-break everything yeah so I think
that's where on the whole block chain
went becoming too complex because the
original lizard makes a lot of sense and
then you have to create something that's
super simple and you don't have to
change it and then you have the layer on
top of that we can have this got
biological development so saying and
then maybe every ten years you also say
take that layer underneath that's gonna
be messed up because we have that all
merge into one which way I think it's
here we've got a lot more complex than
people probably human
wasn't getting much more simple and
through that same so I think maybe it's
just it happened that way and that's
also a good aspect about when we talk
about working is there may be a
proposition to be made that maybe stuff
should be separated into layers so we
had a different discussion about what a
fork means and when it is necessary and
how it might be then very clear that a
certain folks really just of economic
aspects and another poll I mean oh yeah
but that was part of the promise fear
that died for my guess was Bert you have
the easy Anthony and the the assumption
was that but my most people would
probably have agreed that if it was
about any easier and that it was
possible to firstly hard to fix that bad
but also if it was then possible to take
some Recovery Options for contact to the
contract that had suffered for that
buggy EVM they're not something that
people want to do and the you know the
analogy has happened in Bitcoin
multiplications well
the coins that were issued the students
have been issued and nobody said what
was it quite simple to remember that was
new to me right everybody said okay
we'll fix it and we'll put it back to
where it should have been but the
controversy with the down rescue was the
the the bunk was in a contract built on
top of the EVM EVM functioning correctly
however it was built some contact on top
of the EVM but also our documentation so
if you were if you were coding if you
ready these very under all the using the
EVM even the kind of the commonly
accepted way you may still get that back
so it seems like from the point of your
user is almost a distinction without a
difference that the EVM is working
correctly but from my point of view if I
do what I'm supposed to do to make the
EVM function I still get hit you know so
that's I think part of where that can
promise you when there's something that
said that the EVM is correct so peopleö
and other people said look from the user
point of view it may as well a bit wrong
so we need fit
yeah
I don't think that really happen okay
yet but but I guess the question is then
is there a society of the kind of
sustainable layers about what you're
going to say isn't gonna change of what
it's a challenge and then an act I
definitely think that's a good
conversation so so the practical example
is that we discover fit fairly early on
that gas prices change and to me it's
always been something's always been an
assumption as a as a developer that gas
prices will change but apparently a lot
of people to get that right so so now we
it looks like we need to change the gas
prices to allow us to scale you theory
because the row it's - it turns out it's
right in the state writing data to the
chains - chief now and also reading data
from the chains - Jeep but then
computational operations for example to
extensive in comparison to have for all
the users who ever
well the possible changes that can be
made and that having them all listed in
cent next to that how hard it is to
change one of them or yet what he thinks
because to me it also seems like we also
have these constitutions and the
government I mean all the states are
running based on laws not changed
you have the Constitution as it should
be changed as people as possible and as
we as less frequency as possible and
then you have the bylaws that are
changing very fast and can be changed
very severely yeah based on what the
interest of the administration is and
here it's very much the same I mean the
gas is going to change just like the
administration violence right while the
Evi etherion virtually she's not going
to change very fast right and and we
don't really want it to be changes okay
because it's the layer 0 so the more
layers would be it almost seems like
they're creating this hierarchy along
these things and then the highest there
is probably going to be what we're
operating day by day and can be changed
according to
we need one of these faces yeah I mean
that that doesn't quite fit that gasps
example because the gas price has
already had every detail and although as
they detailed but such so it may be that
it doesn't actually quite correspond to
the protocol layers but I do think that
this kind of an implicit understanding
about certain things that are currently
County to me divyam and other things
that kind of are my County and that
information I think is very bad chair
and then on a practical level through a
bunch of things that they can attain eg
theorem 2 and the etherion sue protocol
developed that's kind of implicitly
generally know that but everybody else
doesn't have that then there's
definitely a concrete communication
failure there about you know first what
is the implicit understanding that we
try not to change the gas price it
doesn't count but the fact you install
something does come and secondly in
practice what is going to change in
future that information obviously wants
to be circulated share this information
with people
better go but when a veteran changes
ever two years five years or changing
these small don't even feel it
even though attendance we have our
velocity that they will like holes like
you don't mind change movements when our
flight for me United States to Europe
the distance is changing every year
budget regions as our concept there's no
point in that but how do it des prés did
that it Romanians are like constant for
a lot of time to dictated if it's
possible to do this many words properly
and mark instant probably or don't even
to clarify better people do know that
this is a parable and we will with not
changed three design coasters just
without no reform but do you expect that
this will lead to a for possibly
possibly not returned from Thailand
think so guess I mean it is a major
change right it's gonna bring contracts
that work now and still I think the
expectation is yet
as a technical necessary security change
there's no there's no you cannot make it
just riding on it so it's probably not
gonna with them I think that the it
looks like they taught it it probably
won't happen the way it was intended but
it was a plan to save rent which would
have broken a lot of contracts and
really broken kind of reasoning between
those contracts but if I think that if
the core development team that trying to
work that out I think there would have
been a new car you can forget first
retardant but imagine you have very
badly Brighton content they'd like hard
coded amount of gas that will simply
stop working after the unit and you
don't have a proxy the only way to run
that code can be here on our older
version or if you do some more proud and
also it's also finish defaults right
yeah because it's just you know be a
possible so yeah that a lot starts to
progress yeah and it's possible that
people that like this quarters one break
should keep all our versions or choose
we move around I just think that's
possible but my point is that because
they're naughty right ahead
like the Dow people want to get the
money read and not it's a lot less
fingers and I think that's important
believe me if you got money in actual
contracts and those contracts broker
broker and a definite about money mine
yes sounds like it with more allowance
and then I think that any State
Department they can't gas pricing
probably not it's the state record
there's a severe pretty damn change but
I think because and I think that's
important because this traumatic events
I think only happen the best money okay
something is set to regain had assets
frozen depending on the port happening
or not I think that should inform the
whole idea about a gator what are you
discussing the price of ch4 well it's
only money others they did say it was
money to be heard blockchain games take
off big time and and all of a sudden is
important
my favorite property gave us almost 1/4
it's not supported by the company I'm
not part of it I don't I don't care
about money or just one idea yet but
ours being aware that this could
actually happen that you can lose a part
of your whatever you to be in activities
because it's a toss up so it's not so
much a part of the activity but same
cake because the company shows us 140 I
might first need for whatever reason to
steal before it and then it should be a
discrepancy just because before it
worked I thought doesn't work anymore
and there's no emotions just they might
the negative okay if this stuff to
Tristan full force and the complimentary
order is because they there's a lot of
people that would simply delete facebook
but they never do because we have
purchase of people and we have messenger
and he's simply not none other
acquisitions that we would allow me to
migrate everything that I have on
Facebook that that would function better
and not sell me data and would
my privacy and stuff like that so what I
thought is possibility budgeting and
having the permissionless systems is
that we are creating a system where
these migrations are going to be much
more possible as possible and now what
you're saying is that because of the
fork we are actually pike what are the
sizes yes you might still be able to
play your game on your fault but it will
I mean if the company decides to adopt
the other fork yeah that's a breaking
changes then they just might not be able
to you to play we're talking about
Facebook it's like it's it's cold but
it's also the network effect
so is it like is it more like in the
future
are therefore more likely to happen more
or less likely to happen in comparison
to the past I mean because like the
network is going to be bigger we are
kind of used to how would you even works
we are using is there more important
yeah
in the case of Caesar yeah I you guys
think no more
yeah like gospel wraps isn't like before
going yeah
can you say that I see you like tensile
force of the fury in your protocol
everybody's working on this community
and so on so they basically take and
even Libra have taken part of the
hearing protocol right so it's already
happening I think there will be more and
more about making hard works right has
our community no no nothing that is just
like it's just using the code base yeah
it's a software how you like to print
other company just easily it's just
using a library yeah okay good certainty
cause I think the more to see why are
they 24 technically right it is a
technical if that
yeah and if what it means is you part
ways that's a you know but you've
started about a code that's not the same
atmosphere it's about here and then use
the synergy you might have a distinct
closer together
oh that's in that sense it's more
forming protocol like you know yeah not
so much of a software software might be
completely different obviously using the
same protocol yeah I mean for example
taken to normal gravity to get it but if
they were not at work right does not
compute different software but the still
talking about that could get out of work
oh I see forged and you might actually
agree never met me don't you change it
just mean thing make a copy of this
thing and that is ready to develop in a
different direction for songs and all
for working it back right the technical
term just means that so you talk theorem
forks that means don't necessary they
they change matter they change a lot of
whatever but they usually have reason
and they don't necessarily the community
something new technically to the pork
because they used to cook bits of a
theater best starting point but for us
they would you consider of a part of the
lake so we can't be TV that's so and
basically according to protocol I had
considered a pretty different from that
person for libera you'd be using part of
the code base to do something completely
different that night not working a
question of whatever that thing I mean
let's you working the repo if you want
leg and using some confidence begins at
midnight here where things it's a
portable like way to being Mike it's
basically a version of the statement
yeah so we a lot of questions and I
think so you think
[Music]
so I am spending is much better now got
it especially the body that was an
interesting case
yeah I think I would actually love to go
with the people that past four quarters
and just find out whether we can
formalize that it's one of the order of
courts and white and have
[Music]
go for it well I think we should have
had a bigger and business and be more
actionable domestic festival
[Music]
barking to
because it died thinking I think we
would have thought better incredible
mistress I noticed I kind of felt that
for example if you receive a foundation
it's kind of responsible for maintaining
the wraps you know a chain so I know
that like but the dollar was there they
did some communication it was
and so on so I think they have at least
some fellow understanding how to react
and
it was over time and I maturely users
like you when you sound like we need to
be responsible towards it Amish road
users would pair it up too
woman like they can join a phone
we have a 72-hour just would find
ourselves it's some time we gave the
situation of having to change just
selected what we package it but I found
the conversation really interest
my first for me and the subtle because
that one
listening to some of your exchanges and
partly also like glimpses of make
technical decisions because I mean we're
talking about work from our perspectives
and stuff like that I also show system
liver whether the next one thing I
understood also late because we haven't
chatted about lake you know governance
models and what is much consensus where
the reasons these good aspects benefits
where you can report how may became more
formalized models can
so what Rick to understand why they kept
people and Ethier people like than to
say that formal formal governance
processes is very hard to implement
because there are his new kinds of
attacks and stuff and because like
basically as soon as you formalized
something the complexity when you were
mentioning like they were considered a
national electricity grid into the you
know the way your different asset
mapping mapping different stakeholders
that maybe have to be taken into account
in the affluent setting up and have like
in the governance model you
see colder side than the network and
Stewart's prior to do so
yeah dude super they really manage that
they can see the next generation of this
would be I would be coming back to the
additional questions I had like we want
to provide more I buy this but it's
but a lot of stuff matters someone
attractive to me was very interesting
and especially the part of the
stakeholders so would we need to dress
how are they like a power play between
those different organizations or non
organizations
if we have feeling that this is
something that is actually not true or
it's just happening or it's just
something that it's like a combination
of different things like some person
that is very charismatic or like
convincing a group of community which
community how disinterested Geter so
yeah just like opening
[Music]
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