[Applause]
okay hi everyone the panel that we're
doing right now is called house scaling
and tax privacy I apologize my voice is
a little rough today but I think I can
manage my name is Liz Steiner I work at
the authority but I'm just here to
moderate a panel and we have four
wonderful panelists to talk about this
topic today and I'm going to let them
introduce themselves and then we'll also
in the more concerning
I'm Josh Cincinnati I'm the executive
director of the CGI Foundation a
us-based biomimicry nonprofit focused on
pricy financial transactions online
permanently through through some cash
I'm very excited talk about all this day
this breezy said the camera a little
rant about privacy as per this reduction
so what yeah we had that so yeah why
just scaling how do you think scaling in
pets plants you might even get my
it's discussion on yeah for me I think
somebody's becoming apparently liquor
apparent is that oftentimes the
discussion around practices is at odds
with what we can do the things that can
able scalability and I sacrifice one in
order to have the other the other the
other thing that I'm like really
fundamentally concerned about is
actually more about scaling but scaling
a public discussion around
Whiteface is important because if we
don't really socially agree that it is
we're going to have a very hard time
actually convincing people to integrate
the things necessary to make this
awesome hi I'm Ellie
I am co-founder and chief scientist at
off chain labs I'm a professor at
Princeton and some time US government
official so so for me they one of the
big issues about scaling and privacy is
what happens as we try to meet this
vision of web 3 of scaling up this
technology to the point where it's
something that everybody uses all the
time and I think there's a lot we can
learn from the history of privacy on the
web
in web 2 which were not good people are
very unhappy with how that worked out
and it's not because there was not
useful privacy technology there we knew
how to do end-to-end description we knew
how to encrypt it in place we knew how
to do strong authentication we knew how
to do a lot of things that somehow did
not actually get done in practice with
our name we had horrible problems with
endpoint security we have all the
problems with all of our data is sitting
in corporate servers where who knows
what happens to it the point being that
having the technological tools there is
not enough if we just redo everything
that happened in web-one and web 2 but
now with more stuff on a public ledger
we're going to get a result that is no
better and so we have to think beyond
just building the technological tools we
have to understand how to build a market
and how to build a structure in the
community that's going to behave
differently and then others have before
when the big money shows up hi so my
name is Ian virus the shopping
scientists see Josh and that's
that's all for the University of
Maryland loan first time cryptocurrency
because I was worried about kind of
aspects of it because if occurrence is
basically Twitter for your bank account
everything's help everybody that's not
accepted for the same reasons that this
said that's also an actually link I
think to the scaling problem like a lot
of people think that privacy it needs
bonuses here they make sting a part of
the things like the it's not spam or
slow when it comes to you verified in on
watching it actually makes things faster
because Twitter for your bank account
also distress stealing problem somewhat
actually the Twitter have these
hilarious problems when they first
started is they were trying to broadcast
huge amounts of data to everybody and so
you solve the privacy problem by
removing that data and they came closer
verify you've also apparently solved
scaling problem so I think these two
things are linked they're actually thing
where you can ask energies between them
my name is Jacob Evos I'm a research at
Technical University of Berlin and so
why I'm here is I work on different
things that the contacts are off
changing and one of these things was to
Socrates framework which is kind of
programming language in school box that
allows you to easily were boring to be
specified
programs that are provable in CK smarts
and verify them conveniently on the
blockchain what's really interesting to
note here is like me indicated at CK's
March than these things that are not
often categorized as privacy tech we're
like privacy was not when the motivation
to do that it was actually scaling
because the idea was if there is a way
to verify a very complex
station with a constant amount of
computational effort and we can do that
on the blockchain then we can scale very
well so I do three that these things are
not opposed at all and if the scaling
things will actually brought me there
and now it's also nice to to address
privacy my take on privacy and security
and how they relate is both are key
challenges that need to be addressed for
DES to actually become successful and
make mainstream usage because I do think
people will not become comfortable
tweeting not only their financials
transactions or web block chains but
actually all their interaction with any
IT Service over to watching so let's say
we solve scaling in a year and drive
asou tech does not keep up I don't think
we will see mainstream adoption off maps
right so for me it's a key enabler great
two things everything else for your
introductions until we've covered a few
different things here well actually
there's a lot just captured my parents
for statements so um let's talk about
how things are working now and why we
should why we should care let's dig into
that a little bit more so right now
sometimes projects
in space that it's more important sauce
and technical problems to solve like you
know use case problem and well they are
privacy on top later or that yeah that
let's get the scaling first and then
we'll do the privacy part because you
know there's not that much we shouldn't
be too worried so let's talk a little
bit about maybe what is what is the
concern right now with the technology
that's being used and how is it not good
for privacy now and how this could scale
up and it's beast think maker in the
future so I mean the way it works now
for anyone that is I'm going to use this
material or many other people
differently actually you have a
procedure they use it now it is that
they use working the system that
effectively
Peet's the transaction graph for anybody
to see and it only takes like one short
conversation with a watching analytics
firm to realize that this system as it
exists today it within all of these
projects is measurably worse than the
patchwork of offline cash transactions
and various financial intermediaries
that actually do have some degree of
privacy guarantees and the way they the
way works today
so I think we can all hang universally
agree that like these systems need to
need to change in order for us to
actually feel comfortable using them
and I don't know day to day and a broad
basis because otherwise it's gonna learn
that happening is we're going to
recreate this brand-new financial system
but then people actually feel
comfortable using gaps because they'll
know that all the data can be traced and
open for their competitors to see people
won't actually engaging in any crypto
currency transactions because they know
that companies and governments will be
surveilling earlier and that's like a
very frightening thought
so I like how you fix that
Tomita to smart people to figure that
out but I mean one of the ways to do is
to figure out how many I need sanitize
privacy on this chain right how do we
get people to actually say that there's
it's cheaper to do this various chains
and socially how do we connect the
really saw the disconnects that people
have of like great right now we talked
about this before
Elizabeth McGlynn when people interact
and buy something online at their credit
card or use music rip to currency
without any kind of protection the only
they don't really think about how many
people can actually surveil and
understand the data as being sold on
their behalf or observed and their
behalf
they can you imagine going into a
stories and casually buy a newspaper the
online equivalent their glyph 30 people
in the room watching you do that and
then taking notes and then recommending
other newspapers really buy while your
process of doing that and most people
don't view it that way so if you have a
big social challenge in terms of
convincing people that that is I want to
just sort of take issue with the
approach of which you talked about that
obviously weren't suggesting that we'll
just build a thing first and then we
will figure out
privacy later because if you say that
what you're essentially saying is we're
going to design a system in a particular
way and once we've invested a lot of
engineering effort and we have a big
installed base then we're going to
fundamentally redesign it that's not
gonna work if you don't start out with
privacy of mine if you don't start out
these thinking about what your privacy
strategy is going to be and at the very
least not engineering in a way that's
inconsistent with that strategy you're
gonna find yourself locked in to a
design later that is very difficult from
a privacy standpoint just apathetic
continue to think that you don't need
privacy if you're not doing pass so
actually Josh you want me to give the
first answer I think you expected me to
give the standards feel like it though
well we can't do it even than Republic
it's Twitter for your bank account you
you could stock whether ex girlfriend or
boyfriend your business competitors will
see what you're doing foreign
governments use it for
counterintelligence this is a rant I
think for 20 minutes but it's tempting I
think particularly for this audience to
go well if I'm not doing the payments if
I'm doing crypto kitty if I'm doing
something a little bit different then
there's no progress the problem because
you just can't think in terms of what
will be actually I have that problem too
what about small contracts but it's not
the case right there will be some
privacy problem that stuff succeeds if
your stuff is worth money
someone will want to know what the data
is I think you have a very good point
where we're planning this event like
that
so actual contracts right you don't weep
the fact there's a business relationship
between two different parties every time
you sign up is right but in a watch when
you establish that kind of relationship
it's public everybody and that's just
not a thing companies or enterprises you
want to do and so this goes back to your
point then if we don't solve these
privacy problems even for things that
are quite money it's going to be a major
barrier to adoption I think you made a
very good point
privacy needs to be
early in the process of designing
applications and also platforms but in
light my perspective is that the people
are also ill-equipped to attract these
privacy concerns from a technological
perspective right we build two theorem
as platform that allows you to do
something you could some people say also
do a Bitcoin to large-screen degree but
it was super complex so the theorem came
along act as nice programming wall and
smart contracts that added general
opportunity to the field the problem is
now seat has Walter forbid convert
resolves to same issue for a theorem the
theorem is much more generic and there
will be no there will not be a privacy
solution technical solution that fits
all the new spaces that can be built on
the platform so from my perspective it's
key that we establish good schooling and
equip the engineers that built II
centralized applications with the tools
they need to make their stuff privacy
where and I'm not only talking about the
traffic mechanisms or but I think they
could bring you a long wave as community
we need to think about how we enable
people to build privacy where
applications because now even if people
think about it I think they can often
just not pull it off another everybody
has to see cache engineering - well one
more sort of engineering you don't hear
and that is obviously is a safety
property and a safety property can be
lost at any layer in the system so you
can have the strongest possible platform
underneath you this privacy preserving
but you can still build an application
on top of that the disgrace
in the same way that the fact that you
have HTTP to transmit data across the
internet is an excellent way to protect
the privacy of that data but there are
plenty of services that use HTTPS and
yet that terrible price because of the
application level they give away
everything to be gained at the lower
levels so um so some one thing that you
were saying is that looking to the
future we're just we try to avoid the
mistakes that we make with red one and
one two and do one three different and
so the answer is privacy by design that
privacy tool many things like that
giving developer to see opportunity and
the knowledge to build in privacy by
design and make it easy for them so do
we just that's how we get web three we
will really help run a scaling issue and
not have to well I think if all of the
engineers in the world could make a pact
that we would only build privacy
friendly technologies for the rest of
our lives and be careful about who else
we train to be an engineer than we'd be
in good shape
but given the incentive structure that
we're being given how everything works
we have to be concerned about what kind
of market develops and avoiding the
situation where there's a race to the
bottom and that means we need to think
about how about governance because there
is a competitive dynamic that will drive
everyone to try to collect and exploit
more data than the other person in order
to eke out a little bit more profit gain
a little bit of a business advantage I
don't think we can solve this by just
all agreeing to not be evil and I don't
think we can solve it by
bill later one boring Aleya - which is
going to make make insecure or London
private applications on top of them
impossible we need to have some way of
governing our behavior that is stronger
than just than just slogans and that
means that we need to think about how
we're going to operate we need to think
about rules of the road for the sector
and we can try to set those ourselves
governments will try to set them for us
sometimes governments will actually be
helping us when they do that but they're
gonna have to be rules because the
market by itself leads to an outcome -
surprise sir no I just wanted to add to
that that I see the decentralized space
also as a kind of opportunity because it
just show buddy where which data is
collected and that it needs protection
whereas in the current system it's kind
of hidden behind API or company walls
and we do not really know because we
cannot personally track what's happening
behind that so why if by making this
issue a very prominent issue by showing
everybody hey here later stare into the
attacks
it will probably encourage this process
of speeded up and one sort of follow-up
question I have for you and on the idea
of how governments to potentially
provide you know gas or were additional
incentive for us to consider privacy
as a peasant sort of central technology
systems do you think like things like
GPR that kind of transform user data
into a much bigger liability for
companies and business entities do you
think actions like that in other
governments or raid agents event of
their variants might serve to compel
people to effectively change the
behavior in most businesses approaching
these systems I mean I think ultimately
when businesses think of large holdings
of data as a source of risk then they're
then they're they're calculations will
change GPR is one of the things that
does that it's legal risk its
reputational risk and other kinds of
risks that can comfortable in day the
government's will be tightening the
screws because there's a perception
probably correct that privacy has gotten
worse over time and companies have
become more careless with these super
days data over time and if this sector
is going to be better something's going
to have to happen to me that happened
the anybody in this sector or any other
sector who gets big enough to matter
it's big enough that your investors are
happy you will be visible to to
policymakers and regulators and if you
are not behaving well you're going to
find out in the same way that I seal
markets FCU crackdowns we're going to
see I think crackdowns upon privacy if
people are really careless sorry because
my question through I think
how we make sure you get prized is
actually good and not just the illusion
of compliance right we've seen this in
for payments and Victorian securities
privacy needs that like lukla think work
now but they really don't and so the
anyone who's just has a public dataset
you can think you're safe but then when
you start working at sophisticated
analysis when people have access to data
it's also public then this stuff all
breaks down and it seems like the reader
reaction or yeah an anticipation of GDP
are anything else is someone does
something completely broken piece of
cryptography that's like good enough to
get past compliance until five years
later where they find their cousin
actually warning yeah so I wanna speak
to this one because I was at one point
the CTO at the Federal Trade Commission
which is the US government agency that
is most responsible for enforcing
privacy laws and one of the things in
that wall that drove me absolutely crazy
was when companies made blatantly
technically false statements about a
privacy protection for example claiming
that we only store the hash of the 32
bit IP address therefore we have no way
to know what the IP address is or even
people who claim we have the hash of the
10-digit phone number and therefore we
but it is and saying that with a
straight face I've seen your
policymakers and so I think over time
governments can get smarter they're
hiring people who know how to call BS on
those things I mean that's part of it
right part of it is we have to create an
environment where people just can't get
away with bogus arguments about privacy
right and we need to call them out if
somebody's making a bogus privacy
argument they should be called out by
their peers publicly and it should
affect their reputation governments will
listen to that stuff
but most people but more importantly
prospective employers perspective
investors and so on will listen as well
it's sort of up to us to copy us on each
other when somebody is saying something
that it's really misleading to their
customers so besides some the good
nature of developers in the community
saying that they're not going to
personal data and they care about
privacy also government regulations and
these are and also just catching each
other on each other what else can we do
to incentivize privacy be effective
well I guess this will go back to my
previous might a little bit but you
really have to make to get major the
users want it like I honestly think that
if you so there they're all these two
external incentives and and but one
thing that people should be
intrinsically motivated about at least
you know as it as an American coming
from this sort of constitutional rights
perspective like you should care about a
Fourth Amendment rights care about us or
right two fundamental privacy that is
enshrined by these fundamental legal
rights but I do agree that oftentimes
like in practice I think the user has
created bad trade-offs there is one
service that is very nice and easy to
use it doesn't care about privacy and
then you can do see cash legal
transaction which is very complex in
comparison to paintball right so I think
it's maybe that's not the best example
but it's also like just clicking except
on the website for something so we need
to provide better trade also maybe
regulatory force people to let better
chance I think we also need to provide
better attacks it'd be really good to
demonstrate to people watching off so a
good example this is didn't know which
us is an app used
it's for dinner that's we don't have a
good banking system to transfer money
that way and for a long time for much of
people knew that bill had this default
public each other literally was Twitter
for your bank account was a web pages
where he understood everything that one
bit but we were all showing me win and
then someone made an art project where
they have this website with all this
stuff on it and an era and all of a
sudden people started caring about this
and so similarly for watching I think we
actually never go writing tools but
advise your eyes look your something in
there you can find out about you don't
you music wish you have made this a sec
right and until we do that it's just a
hypothetical oh I can tell you that my
arrow is work well I can tell you that
this vessel back up it it's not really I
mean another thing we can do is give
users some hope
I think most users most of the time when
they use technology just said this
fatalistic attitude whatever I do my
date is going to go everywhere right and
so it doesn't really matter what I
choose people don't really believe that
if they choose product Abril and product
B they'll be in them they'll be in a
significantly better position with
respect to privacy and in that kind of
environment if there is a product a
stack if there is some environment
that's available to people that actually
does offer better privacy and we talked
about the idea that it is possible to do
this because I think in the in the
legacy tech space their narrative that
you hear is that you know we really
don't want to have all your data but we
just need it to run our business it's
just a thing that's necessary to make
the sector go and I don't think that's
true but to the extent that this is the
way that our community talks about these
things we will make it true
so we need to work hard I think to try
to give users hope and to try to talk
about holding ourselves to a higher
standard that we can solve these
problems and we don't have to just
collect everything in order to make our
businesses governor we're not talking
about do you trust Google with your data
or Facebook with your data but it's
actually do you trust some part of your
data or is it public everybody it's not
just this trade off maybe give us some
better ability you can at least - thank
you only trust like or maybe have a
follow-up question do you think there's
really that much of a choice you haven't
back three or is it rather there is an
implementation that gives you privacy
property is technically where you have
zero for me it's muscle binary in that
space because the longer company that
has data and can act that's just me
or be yeah be good with the data well in
the in the legacy tech space the a lot
of privacy action or trouble happens at
higher levels of the staff right so
anything that is a real risk here in
this space as well that at higher levels
of the stack you might see more data
collection you know from a fundamental
technology standpoint you an answer to
your question I think there are pros and
compared to what came before also this
is a do-over on some of the structures
and approaches that happened before and
maybe we're a little bit wiser about how
to do it
so speaking of being Liza that's a
little bit about the technology and
people actually speaking of them let's
talk a little bit more about the
technology and incentives that can be
combined perhaps like we were talking
earlier about scalability and privacy
can be done at the same time with
technology I think it's good to explore
that kind of thing too it's an extra
opportunity for incentive that perhaps
is not better and what beautiful and
stuff so yeah do you want to talk about
some of the abilities that we can do
with the things that we can capability
that we have when were doing an
assessment not so my usual thing at work
with this newer knowledge of proofs and
we've seen a massive amount of new
excitement of what we can do and it's
quite interesting but I think we're sort
of people getting distracted by they'll
get just the new exciting little pieces
of it or not the like general pattern of
use the tools here's the techniques so a
common thing people think of is without
new piece of photography to get there
then a bunch of these things to do this
this is the existing techniques for
doing like it helps me catch some air
pollution well or as well and then also
that like people miss I need to get hung
up I'm like oh we're in the account
about bitcoins at UT Excel bottom
different none of the techniques over
there or over here
right and it's actually these are all
pretty
you use most of these developments on
anything so it seems that in fact the
incentives of these face right now I'm
getting very excited about what's my
priority subscribe there were actually
many shows like what health inside your
car it's the biggest thing there are
also things that you can do in terms of
design that don't rely on the absolutely
newest Chinese most complicated
cryptography so you know looking at what
we're doing at opportune laughs we've
done a lot of work to try to move state
of states and contracts off chain we did
that originally way back in the
beginning motivated by scalability but
when you move stuff off chain you when
you reduce the footprint on chain you
also have a significant privacy benefits
so you don't need to use the highest
tech stuff there stuff you can do with
in this sort of traditional engineering
frameworks and there is a synergy
between efficiency and privacy in a
space where the public more public on
chain say is more expensive than what
you can do privately that's not to say
that you should never use the the high
tech stuff or that we would never use it
but but you can get a lot without
needing to you didn't use that stuff I
was only in three and I would like to
ask a question to the other panelists
because it was my initial question was
like where unit is like how do we have
privacy while you're scaling for me
oftentimes the answer to privacy and
scaling poisons the same direction as
least because it's like reducing block
chains to what they're actually
that and not doing as much as possible
on the blockchain and if you remove
computation steps and then like to to
verify the montane you can use different
techniques that can be simple integrity
checks with hashes it can be complex
mechanisms like stock starts whatsoever
it doesn't matter but the key aspect is
we move stuff away from the clock chain
keep as much of the information off that
public lecture in the first place and
then there's much less we need to bother
about and at the same time we push this
loan on the blockchain so it's naturally
gonna not scared better but for the same
amount of utility require less
computation to be done mantra in the
first place so do you think there is a
synergy between privacy and scalability
or a trade-off so I I think I'm the lone
panelist who who said that there was a
trade-off and I was at least technical
in years maybe I wrong but I actually
like I think there is a trade-off
present that because it creates it
creates a degree of user complexity for
one thing when you start offloading
stuff into other layers and doing things
if you roll up something like but you
have to figure out then how you actually
engage that interaction
layer on the user side then the other
thing that I I think it creates is you
know it does require like shiny or newer
photography that has potentially like
unknown unknowns about what way are
built really play something
hello where there is Vista to be like a
weakling trustless every cursive you
know the trilogy privacy but there's so
much that's not known about it and you
said to understand those trade-offs when
when approaching this doesn't say that
there isn't still some alignment on like
yeah there being a mutual advantage to
having less state I'm getting blockchain
and more of it sort of private and an
ulcer that just creates new complexities
that have to deal with like Josh is
saying at the technical level that seems
to be true which is an interesting
switch because usually in traditional
centralized systems when you added
cryptography maybe it's slower and so
you make a justified vs. here it's
reflective of your new feed data an
assistant that's all the burden that
makes a pass code but the social
complexity of the spike shedding of rich
photography do we use or hopefully if it
is not common sense I'll write this
whole debate up which weights
assumptions which elliptic curves right
which you know do we believe in falsify
about subject you've seen these things
on Twitter can slow things down it's
very impractical from a socialist
perspective developers well in the
interests of scaling the debate and
scaling the system we're gonna put those
off for five years and what it's going
to ignore and that is tempting but if we
do that we will find out five years that
we can't have privacy
and we'll be doing the pixel there's a
role for Standardization here as well
and doing with the issue that ian is
talking about that you know the sort of
prank mutation of the complexity you see
this in other areas as well where those
things that are similar across products
can be standardized while allowing
people still compete in the areas where
there's more innovation we saw that you
seen that in cryptography for example
right there are standard ways to do many
of the older cryptographic primitives
it's understood how to do them like key
size to me how to generate this or that
even formats and so on are standardized
and that's all useful for a bunch of
reasons one first because it allows more
vetting by the community of particular
approaches but also because it helps
with the emergence of open source
implementations so you don't have people
reemployment in the same stuff so how do
you think that interacts with what seems
to be emerging there where we have
companies that are basically marketing
not product but literally go away we
don't see where knowledge encryption
proof that like trying to push these
things so you're gonna that could
disappear in like five years that just
effective practice is a very nascent
new system is this be a problem of like
you're not gonna standardize this is one
guy says they want to standardize on
they and someone saying something
completely different but if we have a
strong cryptography stood on a you'll
remember I mean this standardization
works where there is enough agreement on
where how some part of the system would
work you know you can come up with
standards for state verification of zero
knowledge proof maybe without needing to
have a standard for how
generate the proof for what sir how you
build the circuit that you're proving
and so on so you know and similarly in
other systems there are parts that are
standardized and the standards can be
pluggable where people can plug in their
own secret sauce in the areas where
there is a lot of innovation and where
it's a little bit less so I'm not an
expert on the history of cryptography
but I do think that there was kind of
similar things taking place with early
encryption right where it was in private
companies and they selected some
parameters and was like old doc magic
and over time these things where
battle-tested
became established were republished and
more open source wait so maybe we're
just on track but I do see what they're
getting at that this could be an issue
the reason I mentioned it seems to be
middle that's exactly right or something
like this and such but a lot of it was
all done by RSA for the basic encryption
and then Netscape for plsss all the time
but it seems like in those cases there
was one comment expertise and now in
this cases democratized which is good
but there's now more head fighting and
that sounds different but that may be
because I'm just sitting I mean if you
look at cryptographic standards some of
the most popular standards like the hash
function standards for example or a yes
we're done through government organized
processes although they were open
competitions and that was a way of
organizing the community and you had a
lot of it was community work and so lots
of lots of diversity different opinions
about how to do that but yeah a strong
standard emerged and one thing that got
trust out with that process obviously
governments can't run these things badly
and the result of that can be can be
worse than nothing as we don't know but
there are good examples good the good
existence proofs that this can be done
well and you can get to standards even
for things like
Cyprus where there's a lot of a lot of
different ideas about how to do it and I
guess standardization will help with
making easier tools for privacy medicine
so yeah is there anything else that you
won't want to say before we open up
through our questions
okay just are there any questions from
the audience for
it's like no I think some rest
could you talk about the role of crypto
currency exchanges in this debate and
pass in your answers could you debate
amongst yourselves or talk about what
you'd like to see press of what you
think will happen so the question was
how can exchanges in the future scale in
the taxi market is going to be very
creepy but with exchanges my major
concern is the last exchanges maybe for
a bit but maybe users and users behavior
and it goes back to privacy and Trust
and like the new responsibilities of
users as well because if it looks
statistics how many people actually keep
private keys themselves and how many
people trust exchanges with it it's kind
of worrying to think what I don't think
we can think that these people will take
responsibility for privacy
yeah if if we all view data as a
liability then exchanges are effectively
like centralized channels are legally
mandated nuclear-waste ups the like they
they're worth everyone's data that goes
and they're legally required to write
like and I don't see that changing to be
honest so I my preferred outcome that I
don't think it's actually likely to be
honest is that at least Senate not
assume is that people figure out other
ways to exchange against these systems
that do actually preserve privacy
without having to go through the nuclear
waste stuff any other questions like
yeah questions I guess in terms of the
pattern of saying I see repeat in
America but our neck the most users are
or will be in the most in Asia China
independent of what does your experience
which in that sense is there anything
like we can see if there's developments
there or or or certain thing about me so
I have last month I was in Tokyo on a
panel with some people from campus a
which is the Japanese financial services
administration I believe and they
regulate cryptocurrency and that - in
Japan and that was actually interesting
because there was an appreciation of the
privacy wasn't English should be aware
of they wanted to do all of its first
but that actually wasn't think they were
concerned about they acknowledged that
needed genuinely to have privacy of
these things they're really interested
in male is that the regulatory
environment
janma say is responsible both for
consumer protection and privacy and for
enforcing like act money water and stuff
versus in the u.s. the guys who you
money laundering is Treasury Department
Vinson and when you talk to them about
privacy they basically go yeah you sound
right but that's not our problem so why
are you getting our way so I think there
may be some better hope in parts of Asia
in other places well I'm not gonna
comment further on that anybody else I
mean there's also going to be the
difference between
- ether companies versus fantasy the
individuals - right there any other
thing that but even in the most
permissive hostile government you can
think of those governments have enemies
leader other governments they don't let
those other governments seeing
everything but just imagine what would
happen if you go looking everybody who
worked in the security service of a
company go oh yeah that guy there is
having trouble paying his rent
Hugh Trevor I would be there going all
over that they give us all the
classified documents it has right so
there is an incentive
even in regimes at the hospital privacy
what these have security from other
governments they don't apply so it's
kind of any funny to see how it's been
at a place out in the questions
well then I'm gonna ask a fun question
all right so so if you could so we like
before the internet do or have some idea
of what life was like before the
Internet
here we go again load three what is
looks like maybe think about what would
be your coolest training for three
outcomes and what's life gonna be like
if everything works out as we want for
some aspect of that I just think in the
future you're gonna do or the opposite
like what was it like back in the end
before we like you know you're the
person who I date with to find out that
we did you everywhere you've been and
everything you Bob just googled address
right yeah it's some poll but I just
hope that this could be like like
computing infrastructure as powerful
with better privacy with less dependency
because as it turns out information
technologies like a key Trier nowadays
and that access and solid infrastructure
would be nice
one more daily life level I think
there's still huge opportunities for
integrating services reducing vanderhoff
in all these kind of things that just
make your daily life better but mail see
on Spencer
over the next 10 years my biggest hope
is that we learn from what has happened
before us we have a chance planet to
before I do over to rebuild the
technology stack that people rely on and
we have a real opportunity to do a
better job it is probably not as easy as
we think to do that people who came
before us faced a lot of trade-offs they
made a lot of decisions most of them
still seem like the decisions in
hindsight and yet they ended up in a
place that has some real disadvantages
but I hope that we do better this time
and I think one of the keys to doing
that is to get well two keys to doing
that at first to really pay attention to
what happened before and learn from it
and to not to give ourselves too much
credit for being able to see ahead for
being more altruistic than we actually
will turn out to be yeah if I couldn't
describe like my ideal view for what the
end result of this movement might be
like I actually I think it'd be more
this in my in my day-to-day I would like
to have the device on me that is not
tracking me that when I go to buy a book
it doesn't it the rme on it I paid for
it without having to enter in my email
or user account and without anyone
knowing who I am buying that
information I just want to live in a
world where it kind of emulates like
what it was like when you went into a
bookstore and they actually feel like
that's a return to form and that we
could build that under formal gaining
all the convenience that we have in
today's society so you're saying you
want to look like you're saying you
wanted to look like what it was before
they lost the other half so we want the
mobile device in our pocket that's not
acting like the mobile device trapping
us in a pocket that we separate out and
we once have been with a cache but
that's digital all right and here's our
last comment that 617 seconds over time
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