okay can everyone hear me good morning
I'm very glad that you will manage to
find seats thank you for making it here
early so welcome to this morning's panel
on emerging technology and social
progress so we'll be discussing some key
challenges in the humanitarian sector
and the global financial system and how
innovative finance initiatives can offer
solutions to some of these problems I'm
Nathalie Cargill I'm the founder and
executive director of a nonprofit called
effective giving we work with major
philanthropists who want to maximize
their positive impact on the world we
work closely with researchers from the
University of Oxford and we are
currently advising that Mexico found at
vendee low on his philanthropy joining
me on the panel today are here we have
will Roddick founder and executive
director of the grassroots economics
foundation grassroots economics is a
non-profit foundation that seeks to
empower people in the developing world
by giving them more financial autonomy
the organization develops new currencies
for marginalized communities allowing
small businesses and local people to
trade within the community and build
their own economy grassroots economics
are currently working on creating a
system that lets communities make their
own digital currencies and trade with
neighboring communities in the middle
here we have Lucas Geiger Lucas is the
co-founder of Y line and principal at
open Libre open Libre is an alternative
network to Facebook's Libre prat
platform the platform aims to be
technically and financially compatible
with Libre but will be permissionless
censorship resistant and governed by
users finally we have adam Bornstein
here on the end
adam is the global finance and
transformation lead at the Danish Red
Cross Adams role at the Red Cross is to
identify and implement new opportunities
to improve the efficiency of traditional
humanitarian assistance Adams team
identify solutions that focus on
technical innovation including
blockchain enables community currencies
insurance link securities
and micro-finance so thank you very much
for being here with us this morning so
we'll start off by each of the panelists
introducing themselves and a little bit
about why they've got involved in this
type of work I'll then divide the rest
of the panel into three broad sections
so firstly we'll focus on what problem
are each of you trying to solve and I'll
push you during that section to be as
specific as possible about exactly what
it is you're hoping to tackle with your
work we'll then move on to how each of
the projects that you work on aims to
achieve that goal
both in terms of why did you choose this
approach over other potential approaches
what challenges do you expect your face
and do you expect to overcome them and
it will be interesting also to talk
about what success looks like if we if
and when we get there and then for the
final section of the panel we'll be
looking ahead to take a a broader look
at where we see this sector going over
the coming years and how individuals can
be involved so um well would you like to
start us off with a brief introduction
Thanks so I was a physicist about 20
years ago working at Stanford and I
started doing agent-based modeling and
there's a thing called econo physics and
there was this theoretical model where
if you could start tweaking who gets to
issue money and what are the rules on
that money you could drastically change
these these models in theory and it
turned out as I found out there was a
movement about creating local currencies
going back almost 50 years and there
were examples of these all around the
world so I got really passionate I left
a physics went into economics and
started studying this stuff and that led
me to eventually coming to Kenya and
starting to work with community groups
to get them to come up with their own
rules and I started with pieces of paper
they started really taking off in Kenya
these little voucher systems and
eventually the central bank put us all
in jail and we ended up fighting that in
court and since then we've been just
steadily pushing on and just this last
year now we've gone into you
the blockchain and that has really
started to give us some ability to scale
Thank You Lucas yes sir I've been
working in technology probably for 15
years as an entrepreneur my recently I
was part of key scores which was the
data analytics startup that we did
analytics with iOS Google Play and
Amazon Appstore so we had familiarity
with a lot of FinTech technology and
after I exited that company I started
working with a lot of experiments on the
etherium because that would really blew
my mind into how you know we could
actually have a neutral arbiter of
agreements and that could be a real
powerful tool for us to create a
different financial and after system so
I think I'm preaching to the choir here
for this audience and then through some
of those experiments we start talking
about what really a privacy-preserving
application and censorship resistant set
of applications would look like and so I
started wireline with my co-founder rich
burden we've got a wonderful demo here
in the last couple days ago check that
out but in the process of wireline I was
working on the economic design at the
wireline Network and we really intrigued
by stable coins and and what that
actually means for censorship resistance
and permissionless systems and who might
benefit from these and as we started
hearing about Libre
just in the background the rumors we
heard that that design started to make a
lot of sense to me or especially for
developing nations so I grew up in in
Brazil where you know the US dollar is a
type of investment you know people
considering the newspaper it's in the
investment section so it's a very
important store of value for for a
certain you know it's the sectors of
community that can afford it and so the
idea of this currency fund was as
Facebook Libre is being designed it's
basket of currencies currency fund with
instant redemptions that can be
transferred to people as if it was cash
is a quite a compelling idea
but as we started hearing more about
Facebook and how they're planning to
launch then sort of the crypto dystopia
started to become clear where this is
going to be a cartel of the largest
corporations in the world running a
effectively a bank that's too big to
fail and there won't be a government
that can bail it out in the extreme case
so what does that actually mean for the
people that libres intended to serve for
the developing for people in developing
nations and so we got a group of people
from from crypto together some of my
friends and thought leaders in the space
sort of think about what would be a
strategy that we could either steer
Facebook in the right direction as
unlikely as that sounds or create an
alternative platform this perfect
compatible a stable coin that would be
compatible in the event of facebook
launching their coin or one that has the
same properties and same guarantees and
so we've announced this week a project
it really is a meeting ground for people
who have concerns about about Libra to
try and influence the the governance and
the direction of this ecosystem and so
we call that hope in Libra thank you
very much
good morning my name is Adam Bernstein
and I worked for the Danish Red Cross I
work on an innovative financing but as
well as looking at transformation how I
got to the Red Cross was through venture
capital about 20 years in Asia also I
was an equity in us for a little while
and I've worked at the World Bank u.s.
ID and a few other organizations and my
colleagues and I within the Red Cross we
looked to support the Red Cross as it as
it matures and migrates and moves and
develops into like a new paradigm a new
world where organizations need to be
more proactive as opposed to reactive so
it might surprise you that the Red Cross
is not only a non-profit but it's also a
for-profit and it's a quasi government
entity and what's really interesting
about that is that the Red Cross in
various societies
she's around the world 191 national
societies around the world we have 1
million almost 1 million full-time staff
and 14 million volunteers is by far the
world's largest organization under an
umbrella for example the UN's around
44,000 in our annual budget surrounding
25 billion dollars and so if you can
imagine having an organization which is
more dynamic and engaging and still
follows our principles which is
neutrality impartiality neutrality
that's that's a really powerful powerful
platform so we can we can uplift more
than we do even today and especially as
things get more more localized and we
try to give agency to vulnerable
communities on the ground and so my role
or my team's role and my colleagues we
look to do a few things one is risk
transfer transfer risk to private sector
capital markets but also we look to
become more effective and efficient and
so I have a really unique pleasure of
being able to work both with Lucas on
the the open Libre as well as with will
on community currencies and it will be
talking more about that thank you very
much okay so we'll now kick off with the
discussion session of section of this
panel if any of you have questions
please feel free to come up to this
microphone here and would be very happy
to take them so kicking off just to get
a clearer sense of the problem each of
you are trying to solve
well I suppose an outsider could say
well poverty is a very complex problem
but fundamentally perhaps what people in
poor countries need is more money and we
can do that as an individual through
organizations such as give directly we
can send more money to people in the
poorest places on earth we can also do
it through things like lobbying for
policy and form etc etc why is it that
the world's poorest people need new
currencies or new tokens rather than
just access to more resources why this
approach right well if you had one
dollar and you can move that dollar at
the speed of light that's all you would
need right I mean we
in rural areas in very poor ears there's
lots of goods and services actually on
offer and you get these stagnant markets
constantly where the current system is
just not reaching them it's not
diffusing enough and and there's certain
mechanics around the money supply that
just even if you do dump money on
communities
it ends up within a month outside that
community forever it doesn't stay and
circulate and so engineering economies
and engineering tokens and and money in
a way that causes that money to sink
into communities and also gives the
communities to leverage their own assets
and their own goods and services so I
mean that the general problem here can
be phrased that the U n phrases it well
they say well look we need two point
five or two point six trillion dollars
to to fill the gap for sustainable
development funding and that's for all
sorts of stuff like food security for
instance and there's no source of that
money anywhere and and if they were to
pull 2.5 trillion from typical banking
interest then we would just be creating
that much debt in the world and to pay
off that debt we'd be in an in another
situation of just compounded interest
and so this idea that communities are
the source they can be the source of
their own credit they can have social
backing and social collateral and feel
that credit gap they can fill the SDG
gap as well as this gap of you know the
World Bank would also say it's about two
point six trillion dollars and credit
that's missing in the world right now
are there any projects that you think
that are already operating that come
somewhere close to to this kind of
system that you're talking about which
success stories would you hope to
emulate so right now we're working with
about 6,000 small-scale businesses and
farmers across Kenya we've got 12
different tokens that those communities
have created and they've backed it with
their own social capacity and right now
they're doing about you know a hundred
and twenty thousand dollars of
transactions just in the last five
months about seventy thousand
transactions they're using the
blockchain using feature phones with no
internet so we use a server sitting
there at the telecom and so
the the blockchain is solving this
problem of saying well can people can
groups create their own endogenous their
own local money sources can they connect
them together create relative prices
among them and also back it up with
collateral and so the there's some next
steps here for us and that is allowing
communities to actually now take those
those community currencies you know
imagine we create 2.5 trillion dollars
of community currency well what you know
we if we have a social peg to those and
they're all connected with each other
that's one thing but to have actual
collateral in the sense of connecting it
to financial markets is sort of the next
stage and that's you know what's really
exciting to be here with with adam and
lucas because in order to make those
solutions really viable there has to be
some sort of common reserve some sort of
common way for communities to establish
relative pricing with each other and in
create that credit supply thank you and
lucas sort of similar question from
outsider fee could be okay
so there are lots of problems with libra
they're pretty easy to imagine but a
person could say well if you don't like
it don't use it you won't have to use it
there are existing fiat currencies you
can use there are also existing crypto
currencies you can use why start this
extremely ambitious project that in many
senses you could say the bases have been
covered elsewhere it's a really good
question i think the there's a
misunderstanding that if you know the
colibri launches it'll be sufficient for
you not to use libra you'll be fine i
think there actually is a pretty
significant systemic risk that will
emerge from libra launching in the way
it's designed because if this currency
goes out you don't need the currency to
go up to the 4 billion people that
facebook and the association members can
reach you just need them to start
considering it as a unit of account so
people don't actually have to take
possession of the Libra coin but if they
see it on their feed and they start
using that as a reference coin to
something then we start getting
basically
everybody who sees that feed to consider
it an asset and so how do we how do we
get that asset and store value to be
part of a greater ecosystem not just the
the permissioned Facebook Niebuhr chain
so the important message there is that
many people don't know this about
facebook's design but facebook can't
guarantee right now and the Liebherr
association can't guarantee that
non-custodial wallets are going to work
a chain meaning the only the only way to
hold a Libra point is to have this key
an entity custody it for you and that
might be subject to seizure or
forfeiture for reasons that the Terms of
Service of the Association for said that
does not give security to the people
this is designed for so you look at the
libras claims and I tend to agree that
this this design of this coin design is
quite useful for people in developing
nations you're not giving them more
security that way and so this is a
problem so the open organization you
know we're an umbrella project where
we're looking at different ways that we
can create either a balance of power
with with Facebook by expanding the
ecosystem and use cases of it but also
making sure that there are credible
alternatives people want to use a stable
coin that's similar
either pegged to leave with this in
their characteristics or use chains that
are similar to an operation and
technically to the Libra chain and this
is the way that we can possibly do this
and right so actually do security to
people that are in love gonna be using
this coin I'll say one last point
because I think this happened this is a
conversation happens here in the
etherium I my personal view is that I
don't think it's enough to hope for
government to do something about I think
that that's not a strategy the way I see
it happening I think Facebook is going
to eventually become regulated as a bank
and their blockchain is basically just
gonna be an automation of the bank I
think that would be quite a bad outcome
if if that was the only ecosystem that
this stable coin was
sorry please go ahead with your question
yeah it's not so much as a question as a
way of posing the problem otherwise it
was about you know 2.3 trillion a
quantity of money but I'd like to draw
your attention to what I think is the
fundamental aberration when we think
about money is that money is debt that's
a historical aberration but that's the
truth of it and I think this is what we
need to address because we're talking
about preserving people's wealth and
value and I agree with you that what
people we could call the underserved in
Financial Inclusion every day they wake
up you know they they do food on the
streets or whatever they generate wealth
but right now they are captive and they
are forced to convert that wealth into
debt and we cannot think about money in
this community which is a topic that we
have without grasping the implication of
this aberration that for the first time
in the history of mankind on such a
scale and with such force it has been
imposed without consensus that money is
no longer an asset but the layer
reliability and that has profound
economic political and social
implications I think that's the point
when we're thinking about what
blockchain FinTech are about money is
freedom for people is the right to own
your wealth and your wealth is not debt
because a debt is the absence of money
is a promise to have money so money is a
promise to have money it's irrational
it's an aberration and it leads to
immorality because once money becomes
that the governing force how do you
interest people in holding debt by
interest but we know that interest works
in the interest of the user and it's a
tiny elite and the interesting thing
when you put the quite the focus the
question like this going back to Libre
and your point is that there will be
another financial crisis the anger of
people will be addressed to the banks
but the driving force is usury and we
are seeing already a shift whereby the
banks are no longer the vehicle of that
active principle and it is shifting
towards the hands of the tech companies
Amazon Google face
all those guys and to me it's not about
pointing out the finger to people but
it's that principle it's on an ethical
level that is money usually governs
money and as such the people who hold
money concentrated and financed rather
than become a service to industrious
people is becoming an industry of itself
and it's literally concentrating
everything to the point that every
sector of activity is actually a cartel
and the cartel that rules them all is
the cutter that can launder money for
the you know the cartels in Mexico and
be called HSBC and do so factoring in
that they will pay you know 1.2 billion
settlement which they probably pushed in
their risk assessment on to the cartel
and nobody goes to jail and the world
keeps on going and so just before will
and Lucas answers that let's put this in
context that was a great question and I
think it's a good lead-in to context
which is when you talk about social
progress there's social progress in like
the first developed world and then
there's everybody else right and people
that are living in vulnerable
communities which you know 80% of a lot
of the workers in the world are living
in communities where they're earning
pretty much nothing at all and actually
have no money to start with so in order
to actually have that debt and it could
be a social debtor it could be a
monetary debt they need to have some
kind of commodity or some sort of social
currency or some monetary currency of
exchange and they don't even have that
so so I think that you're talking about
a first world problem in some ways yeah
well okay that that's cool I mean but
maybe I'll let will talk in Lukas but I
think he had to put in that context of
war were thinking I mean it's a good
topic because it's so imagine like we're
a group of women and we're coming
together and we have goods and services
we trade were farmers were teachers and
we come together and we come in
agreement say let's create a credit
amongst ourselves there's no we don't
have to start it with any debt involved
exactly and we all airdrop to each other
we all start with let's say a thousand
of these these units and we start
trading them with each other so sort of
like a barter trade if you will
well that that essentially does work but
there's there's a lot of limitations to
it right and so when we say you know
there's a lot of these ideas that I you
know even the movement that
I'm from Missouri round community
currencies has this beautiful idea that
well money is about trust right like we
can we if we trust each other we can
create systems to trade or and share
with each other and we shouldn't really
have limitations like money is like a
measurement tool right like so if if
your builder says I'm I ran out of
centimeters that doesn't make sense
you can run out of wood you can run out
of inches but you can't run out of
centimeters right
and so if money is about trust it's
about measuring reciprocity in a
community well that's that makes sense
we can create these money supplies based
on trust but now we need systems to
trust those trusted parties right so
this whole idea of you know mutually
suspicious actors coming together and
saying well we've created a currency
over here we've created one over here
how how do they reach consensus what are
those protocols that give them the
ability to reach consensus and and so
that's what's really exciting about
blockchain is that well we can pin those
down we can write those into a contract
we can actually say okay we're gonna
create a basic layer that every
community across Red Cross you know that
across the world like post cash transfer
programs for instance and Adam can talk
about that but how are all these
communities gonna frickin agree with
each other on how to create their
currencies and and a big piece of that
is the idea of reserve is still there
there's this still idea of like what
collateral arises that what what is that
trust based on and so there's you know
there in some cases you might call it a
kind of a bootstrapping problem but
essentially if if the trust is based on
this group here and you know this
gentleman hears business breaks down and
it was the key element holding that
trust together things can fall apart
quite quickly and so the concept of
collateral like all Unchained collateral
like Garrett like if I'm holding this
piece of paper and we used to print
newspaper like a 20 shilling note we
would print them ourselves right they
would change hands twice a day that one
20 shillings was providing 700 meals a
year which is insane to think about
people are not eating because they're
missing a piece of paper right now like
billions of people are not sending their
kids to school because they're missing
pieces of paper it's it's really a weird
thing but if he Britain backs out of
that system well what's the risk now so
that we need to sort of collateralize
that
risk somehow and come up with agreement
so there's there's a set of protocols
that we're working with they're they're
based on what are called bonding curves
so the the the credit the credit that we
create is elastic around something you
know it's elastic around Tomatoes in
terms of a social credit but it's also
elastic around some sort of reserve and
as a default right now we're basically
using Kenyan shillings we're converting
that to die right now as a piece of that
collateral red cross is involved in
coming in ceding some of that in some of
these community can also contribute
their own so this is sort of a
bootstrapping mechanism now reaching the
scale of things like two point five
trillion certainly we don't want that in
terms of debt but there's got to be some
sort of trust and collateral mechanisms
to that and so as we start scaling these
things up we have to think ahead the you
know the next five years how do we
create those scales within communities
and how do we create the trust and the
protocols that connect them to each
other thank you I'd like to ask each of
you and the same question I guess just
before that a note on on trust this
seems to be something that all of you
are concerned with and again an outsider
could say well there's nothing
inherently a blockchain does not
necessarily create trust you can put
lies on the blockchain you can deceive
people using a blockchain all of the the
problems that the SAP social
institutions or groups of people can
happen on or off a blockchain that's
sort of one of the key problems I think
and also there's this tension between
separating from traditional financial
systems but then having a reserve that's
based very much in those systems in Bray
is similarly dependent on those systems
and that will be one observation I
imagine people I'm familiar with this
technology would make I'd like to ask
each of you and imagine it's two years
down the line and you're no longer
working on your current projects your
current projects failed what were the
reasons that you would expect would have
been most likely to cause that failure
well I'm back in jail that'd be the
default answer but I you know so this
for me that's the biggest thing it's
like well how do we how do we bring
along how do we integrate in other words
like a part of
this movement that I've been part of it
has just been about a lot of its in the
house has been about isolation and like
creating little pocket economies so
those aren't welcomed so much you know
and especially like we're talking about
dealing with refugee crisis right now
and you don't want to put those refugees
into bubbles you want to integrate them
and so the the the work that we've been
starting is called community inclusion
currencies so we've been really pushing
this idea that well to fund refugee
movements and things like this we can we
can really create inclusive credit
supply and money supply that could
actually bring communities together so
that's my biggest worry is how do we
integrate with national governments how
do we integrate specifically I mean
that's kind of the biggest elephant in
the room and there's some there's
potential in that in that realm in terms
of this concept of the space of reserve
the space of trust and government does
hold the space of trust if we can put
that trust on chain in a way and make
them responsible in holding part of
those roles and integrate them into you
know CDP's or other sort of collateral
mechanisms there's there's some movement
so you think this would have most likely
fail your point would be that
governments wouldn't be willing to adopt
UC systems I feel like what we're doing
is inevitable to some degree but I think
they can really slow things down and if
we really want to move on things like
climate change and produce sustainable
funding mechanisms for these things like
we need to sort of make things happen
right now you know in the next few years
and you know like that budget for the
the UN like it's not just gonna
materialize and if we wait another five
years in the five years it's just it's
it's kind of like a running joke like oh
we need this money to solve climate
change but where's the money gonna come
from let's but you know like it's you
know I just don't think it's ever gonna
happen that way so we need to push in a
way as fast as we possibly can and that
technology we we have you know in this
in this room in this community is it's
already enough to do this stuff like
we're technically able to do all these
things right now it's just spreading
that information getting organizations
like red cross to start saying well
let's just stop dumping money on people
instead let's let them create their own
connect them together and we need
systems of reserve that can
to those and bring governments on as
well Thank You Lucas why would you fail
why it didn't work well Facebook give us
give us brief and possibly the idea of
non-governmental coins
generally speaking gets shut down
because of the emergence of central bank
crypto like is going on in China and
developments in Europe and you know
speculation the US will do that I think
that's generally I think you know
probably folks in your and if you really
don't like hearing that but I think the
greatest the single greatest risk if
you're even public blockchains
there are you know permissionless
censorship resistant are these
government Tripp dose and large
corporate cryptos because all of the
let's say I hate to use the word
legitimate but all the kind of
upstanding businesses that are afraid of
government that want to use these
systems that want to use financial
automation and you know you know fast
settlement medium of exchanges they're
gonna go to the large corporate block
chains and they're gonna go to the
central bank kryptos and that's a really
big risk for everybody in the in the
industry not just what we're doing so I
think that's going to be probably the
ultimate saying that that makes a
difference maybe I'll say a little bit
more about that which is if all these
businesses that have fear of government
crackdown and are more less legitimate
registered businesses go to these
platforms
it means we're only how it gonna have
renegade to use cases on chains and then
it makes it makes much easier to go
after those I worry about relevancy I'm
the Red Cross obviously is a huge
organization but when we think about
cash transfer and so the Red Cross and
the UN together account for almost five
billion dollars in cash transfer
annually and this is basically us
handing cash out to individuals the
effectiveness of this is like
three percent so three dollars is for
every hundred dollars is kind of
reaching where it needs to be and isn't
impactful and it's a report that came
out a couple days ago and in that and
that worries me that at the Red Cross
can't use technology and we can't engage
locally and allow the local communities
to be able to own to own these processes
and I think that's the the emphasis and
the reason why we're working with you
know Lucas and and will is because we
want to hand back the authority to the
communities for example just just real
quick the idea is that if we transfer
cash to a community in Zimbabwe and
we've been doing this for 50 years how
do we stop that cycle right how do we
stop doing what we do every single day
and if we don't stop doing that
it's going to become less relevant over
time and I just want to show one one
quick slide to give you an example so
this is basically funding flow that goes
to like middle and low-income countries
the the dark blue line on the bottom is
Oda which is basically you know
Development Assistance the humanitarian
aspect of that is like 3% when it's all
blended in everything else there is
private equity financing remittance
foreign direct investment and the Red
Cross and humanitarian organizations
don't touch any of that above that dark
blue line and so how do we get into that
Nexus how do we start playing in that
realm right you know we don't we're
losing out which means we can't provide
more money but even if we do have more
money we have to be more effective and
more efficient and so to me that that
really bought worries me and I think
that's why we're doing these type of
things thank you we have about five
minutes left I'd like to invite anyone
who has any outstanding questions to
come and ask them now thank you
hi thanks so much for the panel um so in
the International Development Theory
there is a process and constant
distributing and giving away free goods
to the rising economy and then
what do you think of actually
distributing their tokens in there as a
way of the bootstraps to introducing in
new technologies as you know there are a
you know new things for their users and
then what will be the next step if you
think introducing by air-dropping the
talkin to the users what's the next step
after that thank you okay Stickley I'll
try okay so if you could summarize the
question but I'm basically if you can
airdrop tokens to users and that can be
tied into new technologies and using
those technologies like what's the next
step for that is basically the question
if we go back tie that into also any
closing remarks you have about how
people can become involved in this type
of work and your hopes for the future
yeah I I was really disappointed with
Bitcoin when it came out and you know
this is coming from a you know history
of yeah creating currencies and I ain't
thought well geez you know here's a
group that's just gonna create a
currency err you know airdrop a bit of
it into the community and expect it to
you to gain in value and so I I'm really
excited about getting people to to come
together and say well we actually do do
something and that can be the collateral
that is the backing like when I create a
currency it is a guarantee against X
right and now if that X is a new
technology that you're issuing well doc
that can be a wonderful source but that
it really needs to be articulated and
guaranteed in a way like it I feel like
you know the backing it with Tomatoes
well those tomatoes can quite often be
rotten and so can the technology right
and so really thinking about you know on
chain collateral in a real way that
gives people guarantees against you know
what that is you know if I'm holding
this token there should be no question
that there is a backer of last resort
and I and I think you know as we talked
about creating two point six trillion
dollars for all these things it's not
like we're just gonna airdrop that and
expect those monies to have value the
communities actually give it value and
the communities have value all right
these women trading there
their goods and services and doing their
farm work that is real value and in fact
that you know the whole idea of
grassroots economics is about that at
building things from the grassroots up
so I'm really hesitant about these these
schemes that go out and say drop our ubi
token for everyone and that's somehow
valuables like know these people they
have their own value already let them
just liquidate that value let them
create tokens on it and create
collateral systems behind it thank you
yeah echoing what we all said I think we
need to be mindful of what is it that
we're trying to accomplish in these
vulnerable markets and developing
nations these these places lack well
these places have markets that are
dormant and if we can find a ways to
activate those markets that's the
fastest way to growth and community
currencies or one way of doing it and
and there's this other financial
products that need to be introduced and
I think us in in rich countries we
actually have an overabundance of
financial products you have an
overabundance of debt overabundance of
insurance like I think many people don't
know this like your credit card has
purchased protections so next time you
drop your phone and have the credit card
pay for it so we have insurance that we
don't even know about sometimes and in
developing countries there's just an
absolute lack of that so how can we
start to introduce accessible and cheap
financial instruments and market
liquidity issue too in terms of like
fractional reserve and you know how do
we take say ten thousand euros and how
do we multiply that into maybe five acts
and why would you want to do that you
want to introduce more liquidity and and
and in some ways you're not increasing
the monetary supply you're increasing
the liquidity with the credit supply
within that within that community and
that's really important when you're
trying to fill some of these funding
gaps that I mentioned up there before
but it's also really interesting to when
you think about emergency assistance in
disaster so for example some of the
stuff the Red Cross looks at is around
parametric triggers and we do katashi
bonds which is a basically an insurance
link security that fund that funding is
triggered once you hit
kind of you know like peril or something
so in eruption of a volcano but this is
a really interesting system because if
you start to get indicators that there's
droughts you can then increase the
credit supply without actually
transferring any money and if there is
like a false positive and then actually
there is no drought then you can burn
off the tokens or what you have and then
bring it back down to some stability so
it's kind of like a central bank ish
strategy I would just add like the
negative feedback is super important too
and so like if a token is supposed to
have some collateral behind it and
doesn't well then you know that token
should go away like and there should be
systems that allow that to happen in a
safe way where if there was collateral
behind it can move to other tokens thank
you very much to all of you we
unfortunately have to draw this panel to
a close but please do drop us all an
email if you'd like to know more I feel
there are still many unresolved in and
open questions in this area so thank you
very much for family
[Applause]
you