[Applause]
welcome to the Sanders roundtable the
first thing I'll say is that I asked
them for two hours on the schedule
assuming that there might be a lot of
you to talk about I hope that you can
take less than two hours you can get the
rest of your day back to basically Spiro
United States or the tech foots so yeah
the workshop will be kind of open-ended
anyway you feel like you're no longer
interested like don't hesitate to get
another go it's a busy place but Ruby
the attention here was like we've been
trying to build you know standard values
for a long time and really tried to make
it a collaborative effort across two
projects in the community rather than it
just being like us right into our
contracts and so it's bad and we wanted
to have a place for people who are using
it or project using a are interested in
using it to talk about it and to share
their ideas or thoughts problems issues
and kind of thinking about what's next
so just like a quick quick agenda I
think this is I have generally good flow
for how the conversation might go I'm
just gonna begin by stating some of like
our original intentions behind standard
values and why we started building it in
the first place and we'll want launch
into this like group conversation about
current issues I'm sure you guys will
have some some thoughts there and in
general just like issues we can see and
then finally better votes for
collaboration so then again it doesn't
become like us just writing spar
contracts but we really do want it to be
just like interoperable and open
contracts library that anybody can use
for basic incentives right so the
original intentions that we had when we
started building bounties Network to be
the first thing that we did was actually
writing standard bounties and the reason
was kind of these three main points
number one is that we wanted
have this like generalized rule or
incentivizing anything people have been
talking about blood values for like many
years people would started talking about
coke values but it became about it and
originally actually values network was a
product for bug bounties but at some
point became clear that the same
mechanism could and therefore should be
applied to any type of activity there's
no point in limiting it especially at a
contract layer and that it really makes
more sense is that taking this idea of
like tokens and incentives on the theory
of that kind of letting people point
that towards any type of action they
wanted to see and so to that and so far
you know we've seen a lot of stuff like
get quite really popular across the
court we cooked bounties remain like
very very important but also we've seen
a lot of interesting bounties and like
the designs based Community Development
translation and copywriting but then
also like social impact and people
experimenting with like new ways of just
shade the Kuban actually using using
factories amazing excitement so that's
been pretty fun the next main contention
and this looks like really really
important is to have a shared interface
for interoperate about teams on whatever
II was pretty early on was like if you
look at you know marketplaces right now
that are like up work or fiber you know
when someone posts a task and like I
call this in a market order for work
they have to post it to each of these
websites there's no way and of course
they have their own very like siloed
marketplaces but with the theory oh we
have this idea that we can have this
like share the order book across all
these platforms and this is something
that simply wasn't possible before a
shared order book that we don't control
and you guys
it's like it's just there for anybody to
ensue
and that's an incredibly powerful idea
and one that really like differentiates
what we have with ethereal from from
he's like what two technologies where we
would have to run that so I think that's
something super super important and then
finally and also really interesting me
and something we're starting to see more
of I think especially in the next year
is going to be decide to you you know
the composability of my contract
specifically that other smart contracts
could like programmatically interact
with standard boundaries whether it's
creating bounties creating submissions
accepting submissions contributing or
any of the above and so those are kind
of the three main ideas behind why we
started these kind of have remained
generally the same and we've been
experimenting with different pieces of
them but like I said it's always it's
always been for it to be a group effort
and for other teams to be able to help
us towards it and so we're excited to
have you guys here who may be interested
in don't do that so with that I want you
to launch it to our primary discussion I
think that's gonna be a point
interesting which is like a current
issues we're tasting right now there's
been like a number of issues with like
some of the assumptions that we had
there especially around the ideas and so
I think it's like worth discussing some
of them I can like initiate the
discussion if anyone ever has we think
they want to say just like raise your
hand or add what we know there's not too
many people here so we can just kind of
like converse in a more natural way and
I'll be taking notes as well and he's
willing to be published and worked we're
being recorded - so anyone who wasn't
here last night for the conversation
with that I'll start with kind of like
the first major issue that I've noticed
in that time I'm going persistent to
this day which is the rounding idea of
like the interoperability among
different platforms this is really hard
because like the batteries in
particularly you know there's different
types of action points or the features
to that different platform you wanna
write if a bug value platform might
require users to like before of an
additional step or you know I don't get
quite name added like the
like applying for tasks and then you
have to get accepted in a new community
and then this this poses an issue for
this type of interoperability because
those features are often not built in
the context of that contract
and therefore they can't you know those
actions can't be made a lot of those
other platforms and what that
application features a built in like a
web to Minard if that bounty ends up on
another platform users won't apply that
just do the work and of course that ends
up moving around and so one of the
challenges that remains is like how do
we maintain interoperability as time
goes on and it seems like a lot of that
it comes down to an information sharing
but nonetheless it's like something
that's worth noting and discussing
because it's like I think I'm major
hindrance to the idea of teams working
together and the other one that's like
also kind of like self-evident but I owe
that again is just that it's like it
remains very much like we not in you
know when you talk about marketplaces
sharing those order books right it's
kind of not in the best interest of any
one of those marketplaces to do that
they're incentivized to like maintain
their competitive advantage by keeping
that data private right and that's why
all the web to know please do
and so for us right now like that still
kind of the incentive of all the
marketplaces and there's a reason why I
can open a 0x and gather
atheria haven't used the standard
because they don't want to have this
open data and so that's one of the
challenges we face is like whether it's
you know relying on intrinsic incentives
and having those teams mean just like
additional line that like this is better
for our users we should be doing it or
maybe thinking about some extrinsic
incentives it's still remains kind of
like an open problem that's like
anything else you guys have any ideas
yeah those are my kind of first few
problems things that are coming my own
open the floor rent properties you guys
know that Center guys used it
the problem is our eternity
they're like major Aragon great for our
evolution
the way
with these contractor networks
transfer tokens
more officials or artiest cases like I
was like there's someone movements like
not like die or Solly ether it's just
like your house
and you decide to open it
for our case
as soon as you you have tokens are
locked and rarely contract and these are
governance tokens and not offensive
and you kind of don't want that to
happen so what we've done now to solve
for this
like airlock token manager app will have
to be whitelist and feature or you have
white listening where we can have their
projects out to say any o tokens that
are into this
that's going to be the event will
feature where yeah you keep blacklist
certain contracts from being considered
so it was right right now the standard
someone adds the progress that but once
we build like blacklisting materials
that we consult but you know internally
with an air clock so that's kind of like
on our future of that when we've had
like and
user busts for that type of feature
because also collects a few under our
application
sewing us the question there is like the
tokens would be minted when the work is
accepted yeah yeah and then we also want
like really high dose Mario Party like
you get you get died and
some of the Dallas tokens and I think
right now on their honor I think I don't
know I don't know if there are ways as
employee explore this
I don't know but that's kind of like my
part
so yeah the second question it's
actually funny we ran into an issue with
with like when 3x3 Jas and so basically
salinity had added 2d arrays into it was
like an experimental feature for as part
of their experimental you
and neither wept through the web through
j/s didn't use it and did support it and
so we were like just at the time just
not able to test it when I first
launched the ceremony - and so we made
this trade-off of whether you could like
have multiple people for per submission
or you could have welcome token this
person mission and we decided that make
more sense to they were the animal
people because collaboration seemed more
relevant at the time at the same time I
think this is like a really really
valuable
like feature and like one week I think a
lot and so anything like yeah in the
future that's
we couldn't do that
yeah and we just we would have to I mean
we would have to modify took it
yes Heather away
customized around like that
right
[Music]
yeah it's our standing
[Music]
yeah and it actually takes more time you
know I totally get it and yeah it's
something that's like that is itself an
issue is like standards take more time
in there like this sell more expensive
oh yeah so I appreciate the opportunity
my question with regards to the amazing
tolling to see something like been to a
Manchester that night talking through
layer the first thing that comes to my
mind is when parts the idea like the
tokens I am here
Contracting I know one of the reasons is
that we will relay interesting ways that
makes the more guarantees around money
and
and many either just like
psychologically speaking you know it's
like when you're at the market that
you're bartering with Sony if you like
take the money out of your hand you're
holding it in front of them you're much
more likely to be incentivizing to have
money then if it's like all that snow
so I guess my question is I have to
think that it's replace with the main
idea is there may be 8 into north I same
time or you know to them to at least
ensure that people feel safe levels of
like guarantees about the ability of the
Toyota I think it could be considered
like
so the
it's only
delivering even inspiring
so yeah you're right and not looking
like a stronger guarantee which is like
you have an extinct little over the
plate that was it percent and it's like
a much bigger addition like a trusts
basically of my trust ability things
with it but in that like they don't know
that their submission is going to get a
set to it but they give it like
understand and trust that like at least
the issuer has been funny you know and
then whether or not they're honest
enough to pay what should what how do we
know they're like liquid enough to try
yeah I'm again with again we've never
tested that maybe I never tried it and
so I think it might be was experimenting
at least change behavior how much do
they really care about that because
you're right ultimately if they don't
have they're still going to be close
so
yeah so that's actually a really good
decide to segue into the healthy
discussion so just to give you guys a
background at some point last year you
know every time we like to talk about
families and we talk about how it works
people like also accept submissions they
say well the people who create the
bounties or they want to like act as the
Oracles we make sense sufficient because
this is kind of the obvious one and of
course in the contract you can have
anybody who now can be an acceptor that
you can have an array of them so it's
like you know you can't have third party
Oracle's and you can't have this idea of
like not the issuer or not the creator
of about team even one who accepts it
but ultimately it's like that
interesting and so enough time two
people asked us you know like what about
it people screech or over what are you
going to do and so last year we started
building a project called telphy and the
idea is that intervene like a state
project social staking and the idea that
each user might have a stake of tokens
that they have looked up and that
whenever they interact with different
counterparties that goes in the in the
event that they kind of like renege on
any
their responsibilities don't pay people
for their work that they might be able
to open plate against each other and so
third party Barbara hers would be voting
on is away we spent a ton of time on it
unfortunately a couple things happened
one the you know the bear market the
kind of force us to really focus and you
know going about kind of our core
competencies and two we hadn't realized
like we're still very early that we
didn't have any of these disputes
happening on our website again with and
so while it was nice for us to kind of
know that like eventually this is
something what it like it will look like
we didn't eat it at the time and so that
code is still open source is all
available in the precarious but
nonetheless you kind of like put it on
hold what's interesting is as of like a
week ago my motivation to rebuild Elfi
has gone up significantly and so like
this weekend during the typhoon and I'm
probably going to rewrite the contracts
just because like and then I'll give you
the kind of background for why a lot of
what what we've been what I've been
thinking about at least is like with
regards to the annuity was a so like so
many different teams are building these
like different puzzle pieces where I'd
like for us what the most pieces
counties that we know that
peaceful and like Aragon you know his
cows and the different systems they're
like there's just so many disparate
pieces that need to be put together and
we know that like no single team is
going to be able to do that and like
build all of those pieces and put them
together nor should any single team
right that's like the Facebook approach
that said why we're doing this in the
first place is to have secretase do it
but it seems like a lot of the issues
around getting people to do that are
kind of based on the idea of like trust
you know and like and like
responsibility and collaboration and
these are social problems these aren't
like or you can't write a protocol to do
that you have to like change the way
people act and so to that end the the
idea I have and I don't know if this is
gonna work but the idea that I have is
that if we could just start having to
use and individuals at stake on their
values and say like we commit to any
control you can take our money if you
catch us not do that you know like we
agreed to be collaborative if we stop
being collaborative again and so just
like having us put our money where our
mouths are and say like these are this
is what we stand for and like we're not
just saying it but you can really hold
us accountable to that and in the hopes
that other teams might start doing the
same thing and that we can maybe lead by
example would have different teams in
the ecosystem kind of all come together
to say boy we actually do stand for this
and not in a way that we're like going
to dispose these values they're not like
walk the walk but in a way that's like
trustworthy enough that you could open
claims against us and
so today I actually can't really assume
they can so hopefully you guys will hear
about it maybe use it for you that you
miss have value so you guys want to kind
of dispel some areas well you make sure
you don't recognize before so and yeah
when we have that hopefully that won't
remove the need for having standard
values contracts and we cannot
children's making is that you just kind
of go in Clayton sigasi I guess the dad
would suffer rather than eating like
this contract you know it becomes a
second formation layer as a liquid of
course
between two parties there
I wish someone that has been working for
the state over but this way it's more
like these are our values as our money
claims against us and that's like what
simpler and it doesn't require the
people that are
I'll ask you to notice
that would work with arbitration leaders
it assumes that people
they don't have yeah yeah yeah it's like
the primaries that's a great thing
again
that's really projects
and so a couple things that you said are
very interesting the first one is
actually our original telphy contracts
did kind of require both science is
saying is somewhat like that if you
wanted to open a claim you would have to
stay and then you would get that money
back at their age right yeah but that
was a requirement at this point I want
to see if there's a way to make it like
generally sound from a game theory
perspective but at the same time not
require an every stone to do that yeah
more importantly this kind of like new
view I have a saying is like it's not an
agreement necessarily with like other
people it's like an agreement about
yourself yeah and you're asking other
people just just hold you accountable
with like what you arguing the other
really interesting thing that I'll talk
about and this actually gets to kind of
like the question about who is gonna be
the arbiter of these claims right now
which is that Oracle which is a really
really really tough problem and when we
originally were working on
the our idea was that we would use like
that TCR armors or karate toki curated
registry if the idea is that like you
would have a token that could be used by
a token holders look like curate who was
both motors exactly yeah yeah to curate
who was who is fit to be an arbiter
within a certain enum list we saved that
for a while and as time went on I talked
to like denied him in a lot he gave me a
lot of gripes about ytc our stock and
like bluebird Craddock voting is not a
good idea eventually I came around and
realized like yeah he's great and that
this ultimately is not a very good
mechanism what's interesting is like if
you guys know the Clara's project that's
kind of what they do it's not exactly
TCR but it's like token holders are the
curators and I think already from what
I've heard they've been doing a little
bit of arbitration around use law or
some other exchange they're like
curating the tokens which can be added
to the exchange and business is a bit if
the next step okay yeah and I've heard
there have been some like questionable
rulings on their behalf
which Italians can and can't be idea
just because like people are biased and
that like you can't get unbiased that
way where we end it off when we kind of
like the sunset of that researcher at
the moment was actually the idea then so
like for us right for bounties most of
the claims people would have would be
with regrets like a particular vanity
attend most bounties are occurring with
regards to a particular community and so
an community in this case usually is
like a town yeah and so the idea that
like instead of having like one global
order list or like the entire you know
etherium ecosystem rely on the arbiters
and if you're just constantly for take
for sure
the other thing that we kind of thought
about a lot and this is like I mean
maybe it was a bit of a rationalization
but we like we would like to think this
is true which was that like ultimately
you know in the context of resolving
disputes and like avoiding disputes
right then instead of just worrying
about like okay we have these disputed
we have to resolve them and take
whatever we're kind of like upstream and
we're like well why do people screw each
other over in the first place right
people when you go to the like statement
air B&B and versus like what you're
saying in your friend's house would
trash your friend sighs but people do
trash they are being abused at the time
and most of the time it's this strength
of the connection between those two
parties dictates how much they're going
to screw each other home and so a lot of
our perspective became okay well instead
of assuming there's no connection
instead of assuming there's no trust
what if we could try to like build a
black pen that actually build that trust
how do we create human connection among
our users rather than like assuming it
doesn't exist and this is like really
really hard and these are not solve
problems but the closest we've kind of
come is like to try to get people to
realize that they share a lot of the
same values that they're actually going
to have in common because if you do that
anyway oh you have kids oh I also have a
son like blah blah oh you play soccer so
is mine you know like when you create
that connection among people they start
to feel guilt and guilt is a much
stronger incentive mechanism than any
extrinsic tokens or saying
and so that's like I need for our
property shorter because that's like
what we think Oh mommy this is like just
getting people to feel better
because and then it's work you don't
really have that many disputes like if
the community is stay strong but that
doesn't scale because you can do about
200 people trust and this is like it's
funny because at the time like a year
ago almost we were like we're not big
enough we don't need this yet
good luck and it's only recently that we
started like breathe asking this
question of like our users are starting
to say you know like I'm afraid I'm
going to get scammed because again they
just don't know each other and so we're
starting to think of Caitlyn are we back
at that point where we need to you know
we've grown too big for that to still be
a fair assumption my hope is we can
still avoid it a lot of the work we're
doing these phases instead of trying to
have like one global kind of like
Mounties Explorer and like registry
about act like was thinking about them
within the context of their communities
and so the and then those communities
get to know each other much more and
making it easier for that to happen and
so that kind of encourages it's like
truly living style scaling where instead
of it just being one group and then
having to solve that you just continues
to keep breaking people up into these
like smaller groups where they can't
know each other and if you want to sort
you're talking about power I mean like a
hierarchy and like the semantics
information where you have like a parent
community which is like graphic design
and then like a sub community which is
like illustration or the sub community
which is like an debate astray shion's
you know I'm like I guess that's a
hierarchy of information and in some
ways does potentially lead to
hierarchies empower depending on like
the number of people and the decisions
they can make but I thought I think it's
like not necessarily in that way and
like ultimately in my opinion at least
that kind of tree style scaling is like
from computer science like that's the
way things scale and so that's like the
respectable thing but then I can see why
the hierarchy would be yeah well what
we're working about canonize ER is is
it's all about consensus we're talking
about phone as law doesn't matter
organizations don't matter nothing
matters if you can achieve consensus
with everybody
you can overwrite anything so our focus
is finding out consent opportunity what
everyone wants you know no one had in
real-time and be able to track that and
a consensus building way today
everything finds the disagreement
everything focuses on that people
fracturing and that's within the
communities as long as we do that we
can't get that honor but in canonize
ervices we have support camps where you
have a super camp which is what people
agree on and when you find something
disagreeable as soon as their migration
you push that down to a support in the
sub camp so if you join a camp and so we
do
join captain editorial control if two
people want two different things you
push that out of the make consensus in
the supporting subject
so everyone still supports a super camp
and reasonably stays up there and the
bottom line is you still need to track
all those differences in the lower level
subjects and by definition if you've no
concisely and quantitatively what every
one of us that's incentives even if you
could no consensus at scale you can take
them away that's really really enjoyed
that your projects economy I think is a
big problem that I have to think about
with regards to like the values and you
know like heaven when you get those
disagreements about that is how do you
resolve them and I think that's really
awesome like pushing them down 10 and we
split the forwarding and all of that
other kind of stuff from the from the
canonization so when you join a can you
get control of that camp so everyone
gets a voice and it's all about
consensus so you have the fewest number
of camps possible and then we have what
we call candidates algorithms that let
you can I suppose you want so today if
the input is on everything coming in if
you're going to scale the hierarchy says
we don't allow that 1% in
published mechanics and we flip that
upside down everyone uses a catalyzer
algorithm that's basically a way for you
to select experts that you trust and you
use that in either algorithm it only
castles low so you can see 90% of its I
trust walk and if you can say that then
you have consensus and you have the
signal a around that what people think
and signalling the kerning system
sometimes all just about voting and
disagreement and a one-time snapshot
right
if the camps I've got to be about
falsifiability what will it take you get
the campsite what will falsify your camp
you define the experiment you do the a
big experiment allspice that cap in you
measure the value of that scientific
argument as to how many people incomes
births we can't just simply have a
measurement the jumping camps and why
and what it takes and again then the
Canaanites an algorithm to default
there's one person one vote that's
terrible because the masses are far
behind the expert so you switched it
with expert Canaanites are everything
and everything we prioritizes that lets
the expert find out what the public
assistance right now and why so they can
address those issues better and amplify
some of the crowd gets everyone back on
board of the traffic experts
but it's all the bottom line is is
knowing concisely and quiet and I
believe the first crypto community
learns how to communicate concisely and
quantitatively so you can go real-time
what everyone wants their own beliefs
not all the communities they'll start
taking out all the hierarchy because
hierarchies are always the guy the top
makes the decision and everyone doesn't
you that have that huge bottleneck but
the Canaanites sir you have infinite
delegation so hierarchies form up every
single topic and so there's a little
Kwame you can stay on that find out what
everyone wants some when I start taking
down that's and I think it's like the
interesting thing there which idea
theory of community needs to do better
is like like getting people to realize
we all have the same outcomes you know
breathe 95% of it push the disagreement
to lower level some snaps them out of
the right hand side exactly and it's
like if we can do that and like
continuously remind people that like we
actually agree on almost all of it but
you guys keep track of that disagreement
right right right right because you've
got to get both of what everyone you've
got to find a creative way with us and
the intersection you do stoplights with
an overpass but you've gotta track it
and know it and monitor and Knox abuse
but I've already got something different
right right right or some blue guys and
they need to have us
and can't be the sensor and because the
best done any experiments are like
thinking it was around like quadratic
voting and we're working on an Ethernet
algorithm so it'll be both their ether
and we're going to have a quadratic
version so you get your vote the square
root of the amount of meters so you get
a small value so individuals have a lot
more Hope than people who love and work
independently
that's the things you can select we
isolate that so people can program any
kind of voting all the kind of stuff
token boning anyway you want you can
select whatever catalyze to do any of
that
we're hand sanitizer calm do you guys
have like a white paper or like video
post yeah yep there's a white paper
there on the front page and there's a
help page that use it this is maybe I'll
read this story check that I said that's
an yeah because what you say in it all
comes down consensus
yeah and it's funny because like the
word consensus itself like we use it
right now is actually like not consensus
at all 51 percent of people yeah maybe
something like not actually what will
work it senses media and they always
talk about rough consensus right that
means they know like a little guy walks
right
you gotta keep track of that yeah that's
cool any other any other costs that are
like Melvin to any of the things we've
said like I said I know listen it's like
my hope was that this would take as
little time as possible that we would
use as much time as needed any other
thoughts about my current issues or now
after you just you know talked about I
understand you want to build those
relationships and so that like you don't
or the fact that these conditions can be
returned to the people that do those but
I was thinking that likewise deposit it
would make sense to enforce that because
then you're kind of you have more of a
crypto economic play where anyone can
look at a issue that's and say hey I
want to see this implemented and not
have to worry about the implications so
the idea would be that like if it's like
put your money in but not have to worry
but if this submission wasn't accepted
back to say yes so you're not
contributing to an issuer directly
you're basically just contributing to
seeing something this is this is kind of
like the thinking behind why so I'll
give you guys just some more background
these were curious so basically there's
a contract or a function in the contract
which allows the issuer or the creator
and the controller early of the bounty
to take all the funds out at any given
moment and the reason we're having this
function was that at any given moment if
they wanted to make it like civil attack
the contract to create a new address
create a submission
accept their own submission and drain
the money on that way and so we said
well it's gonna be possible we might as
well make it possible in like a simple
and easy way that way everyone can see
came they would druid versus like we
will not wise there are all these weird
new submissions from users
nowhere and that that confusion with
just like benefit early in the effort
and so I guess my question for you is
like you know if imagining that like a
third party could contribute and it
would only go to the like it's sort of
like not under the purview of the issuer
you still sort of need the Oracle right
you need left somebody to say is my
contribution show the team go to that
person on you know and the only way to
do that is by having each of those
contributors be able to these are just
like yeah there are problems that's why
I'm curious this is like a good idea
yeah my thinking behind that is like
that is some that occurred to me but if
if we're able to ensure that that money
only goes towards the person who
implemented the past that's like the one
less thing about a contributor can do it
because like obviously you're gonna
wonder except
I already have against me the deadline
expires your funds and then it makes
sure that you're not realize that
the order goes right now you can do that
it's just like the in the event that
like even if the deadline doesn't expire
or if it does like the issuer could
still do that and it kind of really gets
to this idea that like ultimately when
you contribute to somebody's parenting
that they create a message written that
ultimately like you have to trust them
you know and that like their money is at
their mercy whether it's because like
basically because they're the world and
then instead of trying to assume that
maybe like you can live in a world where
we don't trust them it's better to face
the fact that we trust them just accept
that as a premise and like a figure out
how to act in spite of that but you
can't yeah going back to when you said
yeah you can refund contributions after
the deadline you get to before unless
they contribute much the issue in does
it for you the issuer can also trigger
refunds so this is the other thing is
that the issuer can be if they're like
altruistic say refund all the
contributions don't send the money to
mean and somebody back to everybody else
and that also is there and so yeah it is
possible we just tried to make it like
as generalize as possible that way if
the issuers are honest it can be honest
if they're dishonest what will be
dishonest in the open which at least
makes it easier for everyone to know
they were dishonest and that that like
you know that's like the best we could
do but you have that problem of like you
have to trust the Oracle and like you're
kind of
mercy remains like seems to remain there
and then one that I think about a lot of
it I'm trying to get around but maybe
those next set of arbitration solution
there were the kind of I'm not sure we
kind of got around that as in making the
contract that were using everything you
guys
that's the jumping-off point for a lot
of the functionality
within the now right so everything is
controlled by the Dow is so you know
it's not like a user's address that can
just do it at any point and in theory if
it's a contract they can not have the
ability to call the drain function which
like sort of guarantees that they're
ready to mystic right and like we went
out of our way to ensure that there was
no way for like alternate artists or
people who've over approvers being added
in addition to this contrary yeah I mean
that's like that's a really good
solution or like we have solution at
least yeah because then you can kind of
abstract that away like a contract yes
you can just tell people to
that works really what we want to do
with people getting like community
events or forbidding the fountains too
because that about will become like your
white list of community partners so it's
like you already it's like right now I
don't know if there's like there
mechanism of the size of the mystery of
one of the boundaries but if we watch
the tokens of a towel then they feel
like the first football
like what what our roadmap for hermanos
name is like a sentence at the court I
have
- how how you do like the
like it just seems like if you have like
this sort of Aragon community and
there's a issuer of the bounty you know
then they sort of get to you know it
seems like the community issue with like
a smartphone your act essentially that's
issued about the end so they can kind of
choose you know who could give a bounty
too already
so then if they're also sort of like the
court like when couldn't they just issue
the bounty and if they choose as a
community to not issue the bounty if you
go to them as like a court like how does
that really different because these
values is that
break our rules then you can take some
of the money that's in this other pot
here if it's that was about to you but
it's a probably submitted it's greater
than any one single limit you like who's
the Oracle like if you heart but yeah
but it's like if use like the Aragon
ports and it's like September but you
know you know that's except it's great
it's like community members they resolve
it so if you track who has been accepted
in who has been working on values you
don't like this relationship
and then people who have been like you
know earning bounties so this probably
not just like one person that's working
thought maybe so it's like all the
people that are like working on the task
so either one but can resolve things
because they have to use your human
relationships first thought that we're
all random with Carrie mathison's
exclaiming bouncy that's just like not
how it works in the context of the devil
like all illustrator deserve like doing
a basic routine those you know they
might not know each other at all cetera
for me that's like working out actually
one can see a mere coffee at practice
two years right - I honestly thought we
talked about this but it's the problem
of using her office or something that
they're like they don't have any are
there other issues with just just using
that because it's like they're intended
to solve like that mr. Bishop you have
some criteria about the
our issue I think they're like trying to
solve that issue regards to like having
specific like subgroups within Clara's
which are like like two specialists in
different areas you know I I think like
my main issue in Clara sells more around
like the nature of how that list of
marketers is derived and that it's sort
of like any it's like plutocratic and so
anyone can and they have some randomness
which like helps to avoid it but
ultimately like you can still like civil
attack so to speak and with your buddy
and then that's just like not a South
American is going to know that Luther
Craddock voting is just like really not
good
it leads to a lot of big issues this
Halliburton but it's like three years
ago and people are still doing it and so
and I'm like you know I've shared this
with them and they kind of seem very
steadfast and proving it out and so like
maybe maybe this how it's wrong and that
does happen of course sometimes but yeah
my main issues with the plutocratic
nature of how they do that is to your
point I think it's like a really
interesting question I thought it looked
like a tiny tiny bit and so I'll give
you a quote my gut tells me the answer
might be the wrong answer but it seems
to me that like any Dow for that
printout for you to be able to like open
wits against the Dow that down needs to
be part of like a parent community of
like a Dow of douses and that Dow of Dow
would be the armourers and so like if I
like let's say it's like there's like
the Eragon community right and everyone
community posts back to you they don't
accept my submission and I say well the
aircon community's lying to me I would
go to like the Dow of Dow which manages
like the reputation of the entire group
whose incentive it is to maintain their
their parent organization
plantation and they wouldn't have the
Harvard list and so the key is like you
sort of like go one step up the tree for
any typical whether it's an individual
you go in community its community go to
their like parent community and you
might kind of trust them to resolve it
klaris is kind of like the parent
communities are trying to be with a
parent communities of all parents
by using the plutocratic kind of
mechanisms to get a membership list I
think you'd get a membership list with
like curation practically speaking but
like by having the in group carrying
itself where that Dow Dow is like wood
itself curate okay like eight out of
nine of us think Aragon no longer
spouses are values they don't align with
us like we're gonna keep them out of
this downtown so when it just link with
the mechanism be different in terms of
life this be resolution process but it
would just be using like the token of
the holders of the doubt that was
instead of like Clara stuff in or would
they be different process so I think the
key is like for klaris and I'm Iowa
maybe this has changes it's like based
on my best understanding I know Claire
us the way they come up with the list of
our reviews is that like token holders
evoke you like apply to be an arbiter
and then the token well there's a vote
on whether or not you should be accepted
within the list my view on curation is
that instead of having like token
holders vote on the list you should have
the list vote on itself and that like
people with who are in our burgers
within the list will say like this new
arbiter applied like do we think he
agrees where she agrees with like what
Paris works just Paris works that you
have like a Claro spoken and and then
basically you you sort of state that
right you basically walk it up and then
you're given based on the amount you
state then you get sort of a
proportional chance to being selected
his work is there no curation mechanism
for getting statement to be a little
it's open like anybody anybody anybody
can buy these Claro spoken yeah and then
based on the percent like the amount of
Curtis tokens you how that's
representative being selected as a jury
member sure and that's it
there's no curation that they're using
it securing lists you know but beyond is
no curation to be like dirt McCurry
anyway just like go and be interesting
that's another worse than I thought so
they do you just like yes you've been
but so who determines the thing those
they're stinking so it's an economic
game where it's like supposedly like the
jurors are chosen at random and don't
know each other
and if they vote against the majority
decision then the time sequence gets
taken away well so if they're not
majority so so so basically they sort of
you know it's sort of this economic okay
you look at the evidence and you go you
know when do I leave everybody is going
to vote for when they do like to reveal
and you know so you're incentivized to
but honestly or you lose your money
that assumes that the majority is
already on it I know enough I'm often
tight majority is right I saw minority
guy and so my mistakes yeah I mean it
definitely has some some issues let you
bring up it turns up like you're voting
for what you believe is like the popular
and not necessarily like to your heart
because there is this economic game also
just say what worries me about it the
most is like it doesn't like the richest
person win is like the richest person
has the most share of votes and like do
you want to live in the world where the
richest people in our world determine
like what is right or wrong I certainly
know that like isn't that what ever here
in the first place is like you know so
yeah that's like a little worrisome to
me I maybe they're right maybe they're
on to something but I think as time goes
on that many people will search realize
like wait this that probably just plain
I mean I mean obviously very interesting
if you can get like you know
my dentist I would think but even if you
sort of have like a community in the Dow
at the end of the day you know you're
gonna have token holders in that Dow and
you might have sort of like some rich
token holders in that the Howard would
they not you know in these sort of
dispute resolution process be like like
a higher wave if they have a market
essentially so this is kind of what I
mentioned earlier about the idea of like
Dow's curating themselves yeah like for
instance you looking like Wallach town
right would you I want to join Moloch
down by the tokens you have to apply to
buy the tokens and usually apply to join
yeah and so that can itself be a civil
resistance mechanism whereby like any
Dow is like this is a list of people we
know are real people they don't have to
apply to become one you can't just buy
the token on the open market and that
gives you membership don't you have to
like try to enter and that group
determines whether or not you are a real
person and so from that you can have
like different people can have different
amounts of tokens but that can be
independent of like whether or not
they're on like a membership list and
have been like civil verified and if I
are civil verified and I select hurtness
I bring people practically speaking
within some context that is simple
resistant that guy's a civil resistant
list yeah and so it's like simple
resistant lists curating themselves from
like a community level to me at least
seems like a better way of doing it that
because then it that way you don't need
to worry about we don't receive you kind
of like that it's all simple resistance
right yeah so so then you you just think
you just do like a private about in
terms of like just anybody who's on the
list and just
yeah and you just you a private and then
you reveal and then that decision
exactly I think like that you can do
there's like interesting stuff around
the voting like the actual stats like
you know how do you ever commit and then
a reveal you know is like good and at
the same time you want to have
information sharing and you want to
incentivize people to share their ideas
literally and this is actually some
weird thing we experimented with Delfy
was like you commit and the order in
which you commit determines how much you
can but it's like this like weird
recursive way of getting the pay up so
it's like like first I would get like 1
over N of the total reward and then the
next person would get 1 over n of the
remainder and so on and so forth and
what n is would have to depend on how
many hours you expect to have voting on
that thing but ultimately the result
would be that after I vote it after I've
committed my vote it's in my best
interest to share why I voted the way I
did
even before I reveal and so like because
you do ultimately want people sharing
like their different perspectives people
do people are wrong sometimes they don't
have perfect information we should
assume that and so having the whole
point of having a group vote the whole
point of like what I would call the
Delfy was when it's called like the del
key been the dumpee method is like
something that's existed for like 20 or
30 or 40 years and it's actually a way
that like companies like do finance
forecasting basically a like a group of
experts they are they independently like
come up with their own ideas they come
together they share those ideas and then
they go separate again and then they do
vote but the key is they like did an
initial vote they came to their own
ideas then they come together and share
what I think why they thought that and
then they go to the summary but then and
that's like a really interesting tool
for like we have two pros
but was reversed like who can be a voter
I think like their self curating groups
and then just having with in those rooms
email opt-in right like you know I
wanted the arbiters but you know there's
something like arbitration this lawsuit
or something about like maritime law and
right I'm an expert in corporate law but
I don't know about maritime law I
will opt out to do that because I know
if I rule in correctly and like my peers
within that group seen a market voting
on things we know he doesn't know
anything about he knows like we're gonna
kick him out and so it's like you have
the group curating itself and like lust
only like getting rid of like viruses
and like you have a opti an idea you
know of like where people only like they
opt-in to do things they know they're
gonna sue me seems like a pretty okay if
it's simple if it's civil resistant you
know so it wouldn't even have to be a
TCR right like this was actually denied
and then Tina took a curated registry
yeah this is what Tina I'd have been
suggested is he hated TCR so much she's
like stop doing this as TC or as assumed
that like took it welders curating this
and when he said and what we were
talking about it's like list curating
themselves and then you know if you guys
haven't watched the TV show survivor
right you have like the tribe boats and
like you are no longer in a track like
you've been voted go to the trial and
it's that idea of like the group decides
whether who stays who's enters into that
group and believes it's not some like
third party group of people who have a
lot of money or were like old government
storage or anything it's like we are the
group we decide who is in our group
whether it's admitting new people
one version a woman you could have one
person one vote yeah you could have like
based on the amount of time you've been
in the community you might be able to
get more votes like there's a ton of
different mechanisms you can like
experiment with but when you have
because the key is that list just
becomes like a civil resistant list
emotion then you can do like one person
one vote you could do like based on your
history of like how often you vote maybe
you should get more votes because you're
like an active voter maybe you don't
want that maybe you want to disincentive
either cook there's so much
experimentation there I don't know the
brands for the key the cool part is like
the civil resistant list because then
you don't have to worry about the token
balances or anything you can start to
know that like these are real people
that the group knows that they're real
people and if the group starts letting
it fake people the sort of they know
that the integrity of their group goes
away and I think this gets until a
really interesting point of like how we
see high quality people in the world
come together is that they sort of like
coagulate together high quality people
we want to be around other high quality
people and they will do the work it
takes to make sure that the only people
they hang out with or spend their time
with are other like smart or talented
people if they don't want to be
associated with people who are graduated
and this is one of the big property CRS
was like if you were like like a
restaurant and TCR restaurants like
there could another crappy restaurant
could be promoted above you by the token
holders and by association because you
were on the same list together
your reputation might go down because
the TCR s reputation goes down and you
were on that as well and so it would
like anyone like
but alternatively if those restaurants
on that list were the ones curating yet
if the restaurants decided among
themselves which was the best restaurant
near under worrying of food critics
coming in and tasting your food whatever
the restaurants themself to know like
who is the Mets and then I I think of
these that's like a much better path
than this gluten credit voting again
like we have experimented with them we
had a pendant ID yet I'm hoping Banyan
Claro's will realize maybe they were a
little wrong in there we'll try to
experiment that way those are my
thoughts when you think about what makes
my kids to delegate to me
my friend knows world-class acceptance
in these high trees and so infinitely
Asian but it's also real science of
italic gets this huge treatment of
italic never seen so everyone can have a
jump to something right so we just have
to formalize this track
yeah and then it becomes very expensive
to do one chain I said I don't like gas
it's really like when you do all of
their consensus ability in terms of our
economy off chain then you can use
champion than that because Oracle to try
stuff on changes the chain can say we're
going to use this particular cat as an
algorithm to make the decision so
everyone joins makes industries and
we're gonna use quadratic through their
voting and so that gives people as much
and then term at a time
XYZ type we're gonna make this decision
and so you're watching the tree farm and
everything inside screws I've read
mentioned mr. Miller's remote happens
using the desired capital whatever it is
and then that becomes work on the deputy
consul
we do the contestant chain
because walking stride
[Music]
any other it's now electricity is sun
shining over there then it seems like
your conversation has come to like a
natural conclusion thank you guys for
coming it's been a pleasure to have you
guys I don't know a lot of your faces
here I'm mark have you seen around
apocalypse like I love talking about
this stuff as you guys to tell if you
have any ideas of like what we should be
working on you guys want to work on it
and maybe even help weather
you know I work at consensus defense is
great they fund our project and so if
you guys need funding for your project
maybe I can tell you something
[Applause]